Leadership is an Inside Out Game

Have you ever worked for a horrible boss? If you are a boss, how do you know that YOU aren’t the horrible boss?

In todays F&E episode we discuss the changes in work mentality and how leadership should change in order to promote a better working environment.

So lets leave the old broken model of corporate leadership behind and start adopting better leadership styles that promote a better work culture.

Listen in at: https://www.jasonmefford.com/fireandearthpodcast/

Transcript

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Kathy Gruver: hey everybody welcome back to another episode of the fire earth podcast i’m so excited to be your co host Kathy Gruber.

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Jason Mefford: And i’m Jason medford and today we have a fun episode for you, because you know there there’s a movie called horrible bosses you’ve seen that right Cathy.

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Kathy Gruver: Oh here Jason bateman fan, I definitely see.

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Jason Mefford: That is that is a fabulous movie and I love to you know Jennifer Jennifer aniston always played like the the cutesy kind of girl, you know and Franz and this movie was like a totally totally different role for her yeah.

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Jason Mefford: But it was one of those where you know you’re just laughing and I think it it’s so funny because so many of us can relate.

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Jason Mefford: To working for horrible bosses.

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Jason Mefford: yeah okay.

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Jason Mefford: So I guess the question to start off is hmm some of those horrible bosses don’t actually realize they’re horrible bosses, so the question could be is, are you being a horrible boss.

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Kathy Gruver: Wait me.

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Jason Mefford: Not you i’m.

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Jason Mefford: Talking in general.

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Jason Mefford: Short or not, and of course i’m not right.

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Jason Mefford: But anyway, so thought we’ve talked a little bit today about leadership.

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Jason Mefford: Because I think it’s.

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Jason Mefford: You know, especially working a lot in the corporate world.

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Jason Mefford: Really, since the Second World War.

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Jason Mefford: Corporate America has been.

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Jason Mefford: military command and control kind of leadership okay it’s beaten people with a stick it’s you know instilling the fear of God in them that if they don’t do everything right.

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Jason Mefford: they’re going to get into trouble and what we have seen is that is a broken model and no longer works in fact I was just talking to somebody yesterday about this and you know they were saying yeah you know, especially younger people.

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Jason Mefford: They don’t just listen, because you have a title well duh we never should have been right so so thought we talked a little bit about that, and how you know leadership is really.

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Jason Mefford: When when I teach this to people at first they’re kind of like huh, why are we talking about this because.

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Jason Mefford: What i’ll tell you is leadership is an inside out came it happens from the inside out so we’ll go through and talk a little bit about that, but you know Kathy i’m sure you’ve probably worked with some people over time that have had some of those.

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Jason Mefford: personality traits right and.

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Jason Mefford: Are they very effective.

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Kathy Gruver: You know what I have to say it depends on who you’re leading.

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Kathy Gruver: Because there are some people that really simply just want to follow, they want to have orders barked at them and they want to be a yes man.

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Kathy Gruver: And they just sort of go with that, I think that model is fading and I think we can thank the millennials for that, because they’re so into work life balance, there so in the culture.

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Kathy Gruver: Of the work culture they’re so into consciousness and there were some ad I just saw on TV.

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Kathy Gruver: I don’t remember what the Ad was for us for product, but at the end of it, they said we’re expanding nationwide and we are hiring we offer great wages great benefits flexible work schedule enhanced work culture, and I was like what.

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Kathy Gruver: It was his first time I have ever heard a company saying we’re going to give you good culture and I thought wow this is.

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Kathy Gruver: This is the shift and that comes from the leadership that comes from who’s in charge, and it trickles down to everybody else, so it not only comes inside out it comes from the top down.

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Kathy Gruver: And I think we have to remember that, too, and are there some like old school people that seriously just want to have order sparked and go, yes, yes.

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Kathy Gruver: Sure, I think that’s breathe that’s dying out though, so I think we have to start to convert to what people’s mentality and what people’s you know affinity is now for how they’d like to be led.

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Jason Mefford: Well, it is, I think it is like you said it’s dying out and I guess one thing before we before we get into it too very far right is you know you’re right some people.

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Jason Mefford: prefer to be led by somebody who is kind of barking orders at some people like that some leaders, that is their personality more right that’s just the kind of person that they are they feel more comfortable with that.

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Jason Mefford: yeah where where the struggle comes in, and I see this with lots of people is a lot of leaders don’t want to be the person barking orders, but that’s all they’ve ever been taught.

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Jason Mefford: sure what they’re expected to do and it eats it it kills them on the inside right because they know that what they’re doing is being manipulative it’s using fear it’s using coercion and they hate themselves for doing that to other people.

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Jason Mefford: yeah and so you know I work a lot with leaders executive leaders and i’ve seen this over and over again, where.

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Jason Mefford: When you feel like that right that’s that cognitive dissonance that we talked about before right is.

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Jason Mefford: you’re acting in a way that’s not in alignment with who you are yeah anytime we act in a way that is not in alignment with who we are, it kills us on the inside, we feel guilty, we feel ashamed.

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Jason Mefford: Right, all of these all of these negative emotions that we shouldn’t be feeling.

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Jason Mefford: we’re feeling those things right, and so it’s time you know in, in my opinion, and my opinion really counts, by the way right.

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Jason Mefford: Does it does.

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Jason Mefford: That that it’s time for us to just quit using that old broken model and actually embrace being you know, an authentic leader that actually leads with love right there’s a word you normally don’t hear in corporate America leadership, but with love.

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Jason Mefford: yeah and that we persuade and influence people instead of trying to coerce them we’re not using a stick to beat on them we’re using rewards and carrots right and it yeah go.

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Kathy Gruver: What I say and I love that and to that point that one of the signs of a good leader is adaptability.

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Kathy Gruver: And you need to be able to lead different people if you have one of those like old school people who want that, then you have to do that for them they’re going to see you coming at them with kindness and love and be so.

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Jason Mefford: confused that you.

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Jason Mefford: complimented me for just no i’m not gonna let you give me a, what do you know.

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Kathy Gruver: So, but you have to be able to lead each team each person each individual because we can’t change them urban anybody else.

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Kathy Gruver: We could we have to adapt our styles to fit those people that were interacting with and then hopefully bring them along, so I love what you’re saying about you know shifting your leadership style because.

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Kathy Gruver: If that’s what this the employees, the staff, the team needs, you have to be able to provide that for them yeah.

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Jason Mefford: Well, and that bringing him along right because you’re nlp trained, so you understand about rapport right.

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Jason Mefford: And, most people do not, which is one of the reasons why I teach what I call neural influence right using some of those techniques from nlp to help that leader.

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Jason Mefford: be adaptable bring people along with them by using some little jet I are ninja tricks right but it’s really kind of what n O P, is in a.

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Kathy Gruver: way absolutely yeah.

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Jason Mefford: Once you learn it then you understand how to ask questions, how to use your body language, how to use your voice other things like that to get people to come along and really get them to realize, you know or come to the change of the decision on their own.

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Jason Mefford: yeah so that they end up there’s no resistance, because they believe and really it is their own decision on what they end up doing.

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Jason Mefford: yeah so you know and again this comes back to you know anybody can go read a leadership book.

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Jason Mefford: read all the books, you want it ain’t gonna help you be a better leader right, it might give you some ideas.

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Jason Mefford: But really leadership is more about being the leader yeah and I think we’ve kind of talked before about you know one thing that I tell people a lot is.

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Jason Mefford: Especially if they’re experiencing like resistance, or some kind of negative what we would consider a negative behavior from somebody is pick up the mirror.

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Jason Mefford: Okay, because most of the time, people are just mirroring back what we are giving off.

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Jason Mefford: yeah you’re not bad right so.

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Jason Mefford: yeah so if somebody’s being a horses, but well guess what you’re probably being a horses, but to I.

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Jason Mefford: yeah and and so to help change that person or change the situation, we have to work on changing ourselves first.

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Kathy Gruver: Yes, I was just gonna say that and and so often I love the hold the mirror up because yeah so often what triggers us of all I can say when they do that it’s something that we don’t look at ourselves.

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Kathy Gruver: it’s triggering actually a reaction in ourselves because we see that, too, and we do that too, and we don’t like that, to some degree or another.

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Kathy Gruver: And the other thing you’re talking about you know changing ourselves, we have to be present, and what I talk about presence and leadership.

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Kathy Gruver: Because if you’re not truly present with what the people around you need with what they’re saying if you’re not listening if you’re not actually hearing them you could do the active listening thing of.

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Kathy Gruver: But if you’re daydreaming or finishing their sentence or thinking about lunch or go I can’t wait to.

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Kathy Gruver: Go home and play games my kids yeah then you’re not actually present and if you’re not present you’re not going to be getting all the input that you need.

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Kathy Gruver: To be a better leader so it’s about presence it’s about listening it’s about really taking off sometimes hard look at yourself to say why is that triggering me what in myself does that bring up.

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Jason Mefford: yeah well and it, you know in that of kind of being.

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Jason Mefford: Present and kind of feeling or knowing what what the other people are experiencing you know, some people talk about a use a term emotional intelligence well that’s that’s part of it right, but.

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Jason Mefford: But you can only be emotionally intelligent if you’re present and you’re actually picking up on what is actually going on now.

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Jason Mefford: The one thing about I talked about emotional intelligence, but I don’t use that as a term, like so many people do I, like intuitive leadership instead but it’s.

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Jason Mefford: there’s a couple of misconceptions with emotional intelligence which is.

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Jason Mefford: That, I think the first biggest one is most people think yep i’m going to learn how to be more emotionally intelligent, so I can control other people’s emotions.

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Jason Mefford: Yes, there is, there is a piece to that you know, but again, if you go back read Dan goldman’s book, you know, look at some of the stuff that’s out there.

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Jason Mefford: there’s really about five steps to or stages, you know, things are related to emotional intelligence four of the five are about you only one.

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Jason Mefford: is about you know, identifying and understanding the emotions of others yeah so it really does all start with herself, you know and there’s that whole thing I don’t know if you if you ever got tapas but if I point to you Kathy.

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Jason Mefford: What am I doing i’m pointing three fingers back to me yeah so every time you point we’re actually pointing more to ourselves.

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Jason Mefford: So that’s probably why we should start with ourself.

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Kathy Gruver: that’s that’s hard Jason.

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Jason Mefford: It is hard.

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Kathy Gruver: So for somebody that that is maybe raised in an environment that was you know.

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Kathy Gruver: Hard ass leadership and do that sort of drilled into you militant military sort of thing.

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Kathy Gruver: How do you start to shift that is it just awareness that that’s even what it is, and then you start to change from there, I mean for someone who’s stuck in that old fashioned way of leadership that needs to change, how do you even begin with that person.

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Jason Mefford: Well, the first part is is some awareness right because, again, and unless we’re aware.

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Jason Mefford: We don’t know right and but, but if we stop it awareness, then we all we then do oh whoo all right i’ll.

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Jason Mefford: Do is feel guilty at that point right we’re aware that we’re not doing anything about it that leads to more guilt and shame.

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Jason Mefford: yeah but, once you become aware of it, then you just you need help.

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Jason Mefford: Okay, and like you said.

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Jason Mefford: it’s hard to do leadership the right way, because it takes work on your part.

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Jason Mefford: Right that’s that’s why I run a program where it’s teaching people concepts having them practice the concepts right, because until we actually practice it incorporated we’re not going to actually learn it and change.

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Jason Mefford: And, and things different, and so you know that’s part of it, and you know what i’m not gonna lie to you it’s hard.

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Jason Mefford: At first right, just like anything else is hard right at first, but the more you do it, the easier it gets now i’ll tell you, you know, because that that point to is most leaders are lazy.

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Jason Mefford: Okay, and and what do I mean by that it’s very easy to pick up a stick and beat people to get them to do something.

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Kathy Gruver: Yes, it’s.

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Jason Mefford: easy to do that.

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Jason Mefford: yep and so that’s why so many people actually will default back to that right because it’s easier to do in the short term.

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Jason Mefford: yeah but the minute you quit beaten people with a stick what happens you’ve lost it right and that’s the whole difference between external based power versus internal based power as well right.

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Jason Mefford: yeah so leaders that are doing the command and control that are beaten, with a stick that are using fear that’s external power using your title wearing you know, a uniform it might not be a uniform, but maybe it’s a you know, a custom suit.

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Jason Mefford: Right those external strapping things don’t last long you know so again pick any any favorite dictator.

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Jason Mefford: from history.

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Kathy Gruver: Oh, what would my favorite be.

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Kathy Gruver: kind of a Napoleon girl, I think.

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Jason Mefford: Are you Nepali OK so again polian right.

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Jason Mefford: You know Hitler, Stalin I don’t it doesn’t matter.

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Jason Mefford: there’s lots of people that you can point to but but as an example, most of the classic dictators use external power sure use fear to stay in control.

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Kathy Gruver: And they’re narcissists and you know we’ve we’ve mentioned Narcissus I think we should do an entire show on narcissist and narcissistic personality disorder, but they don’t think they’re doing anything wrong.

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Kathy Gruver: And that’s the challenge with that and I think we’re speaking to those leaders who want to be better, not the ones who are just so filled with ego and narcissism that they.

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Kathy Gruver: They can’t even see that there’s anything real narcissist don’t point like that they point like that everything’s about other people they can’t admit that anything’s wrong.

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Kathy Gruver: That they would have possibly this everybody else that’s, the only way they can sue their own ego and and stop them from feeling so shameful so we’re not necessarily talking about that.

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Jason Mefford: But, but to people that again because, like you said, unless you actually recognize it.

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Jason Mefford: or acknowledge it to begin with you don’t have to change right, but once you can do that then it’s like Okay, would you rather be one of those dictator kind of leaders or would you rather be an internal power leader.

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Jason Mefford: So again, some great examples of that would be people like Gandhi.

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Jason Mefford: You know, Nelson Mandela right Okay, so that gives you the dichotomy of you know, on the far ends of the scale, so now decide which.

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Jason Mefford: kind of leader, do you want to be, and so a lot of the whole ideas of servant leadership, some of these different terms that have come up over time.

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Jason Mefford: that’s more what the internal power focused leader is like yeah and and so, if you want the long term results you got to do the work, but you know what that means to is that the people that work with you and for you love you, they will follow you into battle, you know.

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Jason Mefford: figuratively speaking right to pull in the military metaphor again but.

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Jason Mefford: there’s so much more satisfaction from being a leader, working with people who respect and love each other yeah then being a leader who is feared.

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Kathy Gruver: Right sure, because it gives you that feeling of wanting to be there, of freedom of choice of that autonomy as opposed to well, I guess, we better do that or i’m gonna get yelled at.

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Kathy Gruver: You know it’s it’s about cooperation and working as a team as opposed to just being ordered about and being miserable and unhappy and resentful.

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Kathy Gruver: And you know that’s when mistakes happen, and you don’t have that loyalty you don’t have that people come back again and again, you know you have high turnover cost you more money you got to keep training people it’s it benefits you to be a conscious later.

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Jason Mefford: Oh does and it’s it’s so much easier in the long run to do it too right that cognitive dissonance that we talked.

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Jason Mefford: about the beginning that goes away right the resistance from people okay you’re always going to have some resistance.

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Jason Mefford: But it’s going to be less right because all of a sudden you’re not going to get as much pushback from people but also you know I mean just from a general.

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Jason Mefford: kind of satisfaction standpoint watching people grow watching people flourish in their job or their career that work with you that’s where the gold is your leadership, and you don’t get to feel that the other side.

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Jason Mefford: But when you take that that inside out approach you really do get to actually feel that as well, you feel like you’re actually making a change and doing good in this world, and there is nothing like having that joy and gratitude feeling.

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of doing that.

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Kathy Gruver: I agree, oh what a good conversation, as always.

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Jason Mefford: So that’s what we’re talking about today so again, I mean if you’re if you’re the narcissistic dictator you’re probably going these people are full of shit.

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Jason Mefford: Okay well.

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Jason Mefford: move on.

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Jason Mefford: yeah right, but if, but if.

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Kathy Gruver: Stop.

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Kathy Gruver: flip through them excellent.

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Jason Mefford: Go to the next one, but if you’re one of those people again that wants to.

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Jason Mefford: actually become a better leader more internally focused more loving more you know all of the stuff that we’ve been talking about.

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Jason Mefford: Then you can do it right there’s there’s ways to do it reach out, let me know but there’s there’s ways to do it there’s skills, you can learn little tools that you add to your toolbox that will make your life much, much easier yeah.

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Kathy Gruver: And the life easier of those people around you and when they’re happy happy employees are better employees.

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Jason Mefford: Right.

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Jason Mefford: more productive and they’re more profitable right as well there’s been a lot of studies on both of those.

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Kathy Gruver: yeah.

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Jason Mefford: Well, at the end of the day, the money catches up to it sure.

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Kathy Gruver: Absolutely absolutely yeah what a great conversation How can people reach you Jason.

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Jason Mefford: Well, they can reach me on my website Jason effort.com.

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Kathy Gruver: heard that, before you can find me there, and you know we’re always on linkedin.

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Jason Mefford: Facebook wherever I mean i’m any place type my name in Google and you’re gonna find me it’s pretty easy to find me and just reach out and i’ll let you know next steps, what you can do.

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Kathy Gruver: yeah oh I love this conversation leadership is so important, and even if you’re not leading a team you’d like I don’t have employees, but I still need to be a good leader when i’m coaching when i’m dealing with people out in the society and community, so it affects everybody so.

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Kathy Gruver: i’m counting group yeah good.

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Jason Mefford: I was gonna say all of us are leaders.

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Jason Mefford: yeah whether you have people under you or not, because it’s personal, as well as business related.

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Kathy Gruver: Absolutely yeah I completely agree cool i’m Kathy Gruber, I can be reached at Kathy gruber.com.

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Jason Mefford: And i’m Jason method, I can be reached at Jason method calm go out have a great week and start becoming a better leader and we’ll catch you on the next episode of the fire and earth podcast see ya.

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