E219 Mistakes Are Part of Life with Nicola Osinaike

Sometimes various points in our life may seem random and unguided. Perhaps you think that you aren’t sure what it is you are doing?

But sometimes, if you look back on your own life, these “random” occurrences, and mistakes made along the way were exactly the experiences you needed to get you to where you are today and where you are going.

You’re probably stuck because you don’t know what to do and are afraid of making mistakes.

I understand.

Especially as a high achiever, you want to make the “right” decision.

What if you need to make some mistakes to learn what you need to get where you want to go??

If you look back on your own life, these “random” occurrences, and mistakes made along the way were exactly the experiences you needed to get you to where you are today and where you are going. We usually don’t understand or connect the dots until we turn around and look how far we’ve come (reminds me of the Steve Jobs commencement address he gave at Stanford).

Making mistakes can be a scary thing, and in this week’s podcast “Mistakes Are Part of Life” we have Nicola Osinaike on the show to talk to us about how to overcome that fear and allow our mistakes to make us better people.

Chances are if you don’t have what you want, it’s because you haven’t been willing to make mistakes and learn what you need to have what you want.

Nothing in life is free, and often it’s the mistakes we make and what we learn that is the price we have to pay for success.

Thomas Edison learned 10,000 ways not to make a lightbulb before he figured it out. Luckily it doesn’t usually take that long 🙂

Making mistakes can be a scary thing, and in today’s podcast we have Nicola Osinaike on the show to talk to us about how to overcome that fear and allow our mistakes to make us better people.

To connect with Nicola, reach out to her on her website: https://www.auditdatahub.com/ or through LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolaosinaike/

Transcript

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Jason Mefford: Well, you know if you are like most people you’re probably afraid of making mistakes.

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Jason Mefford: I understand it’s totally normal in fact it’s human nature for us to be afraid of making mistakes or maybe being a little scared of making mistakes.

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Jason Mefford: But in today’s episode we’re going to talk about how you know really mistakes are just a part of life and talk about some ways in which you can move your life forward and not be afraid of making mistakes so with that let’s roll the episode.

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Jason Mefford: Alright, everybody today I have Nicola Osh and ik with me and I think I said that right, this time right.

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Jason Mefford: hacked all right, and you know i’m excited to have her on she’s been a longtime listener, of the podcast and she must like it, because she actually wanted to be.

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Jason Mefford: Here right so Nicola welcome you know, maybe at the beginning, because, like I said we’re gonna we’re going to talk a little bit about mistakes, because people are afraid of mistakes.

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Jason Mefford: But maybe just give give people a little context as to who you are what you do, how you help people.

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Jason Mefford: You know, and again we’ll use some specific examples as we’re talking about this, but you know, again as you’re listening, whether or not you fit into this demographic or some of the examples that we’re going to talk about.

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Jason Mefford: just keep listening Okay, because, as you listen what you’re going to find is you’re going to learn and be able to apply what we’re talking about.

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Jason Mefford: to your own life so Nicola take take it away let let everybody know a little bit about yourself to begin with and let’s get into what we’re going to talk about.

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nicola osinaike: Great Thank you again for having me on and my name is Nicola ocean okay and i’m the founder of an organization called audit data hub.

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nicola osinaike: So we provide and dedicated training for data analytics but for beginners from a completely non technical background, and so I would currently say my profession is internal audit, but I started way back when, as a mechanical engineer, so my yeah, so I think.

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Jason Mefford: Even a sexier than otter they.

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nicola osinaike: are no.

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nicola osinaike: I mean, I think i’ve made loads of mistakes, so I really wanted to be a mechanical engineer from about the age of 12 really, really That was my passion.

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nicola osinaike: And I did it and I qualified and I began designing aircraft and after 18 months I absolutely hated it hated it, but it was a bit my family were like you spent so long studying but it wasn’t me, so I moved on to product management moved on again to working with technology team, so I did.

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nicola osinaike: working for Accenture with technology consulting moved again to public sector, working with more tech teams design and business processes.

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nicola osinaike: Until I stumbled across audit so i’ve moved around quite a bit and made mistakes, maybe, but I think the fact that I recognized that something wasn’t for me and I was able to move on.

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nicola osinaike: helped me kind of get to the point where i’m running my own business now and i’m training auditors in data analytics, which is a much needed skill right now.

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Jason Mefford: Well, it is, it is a much needed skill in fact it’s one of the skills that is in most demand that most people don’t have right so so what you’re doing is helping lots of people, but I let’s let’s unpack a little bit of what you just talked about because.

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Jason Mefford: I think this is a it’s a good example for people right because, like you said, since you were 12 you wanted to be a mechanical engineer and it’s like holy crap you, you were designed an aircraft that’s amazing right I to me, I was like I didn’t know that about you.

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Jason Mefford: But, but you know so so here you go, you know 12 year old girl, all the way up until you know you qualify you get through college you start a job.

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Jason Mefford: 18 months into it, you realize, you know what this really isn’t what I want to do now, a lot of people at that point would stop and go oh that’s a big mistake i’m a failure.

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Jason Mefford: i’ve spent all this time, you know 1015 years right by that point of going down this path and all my gosh what am I going to do.

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Jason Mefford: And people usually get down on themselves at that point right and there’s all that negative self talk that ends up going on, like I just wasted 15 years of my Lord right.

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Jason Mefford: But you took a different approach right and so so let’s talk about that because, because you know you didn’t even land where you are now the first time you changed right.

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nicola osinaike: Right, but I think now you’re saying it I didn’t it didn’t feel fearful to me, I think, in my mind the the stress of being in an uncomfortable situation far outweighs.

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nicola osinaike: The risk of messing it up, so I think I weighed it up like that, so I can either be miserable and not risk failure or take a chance and hopefully it’s better than where I am.

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nicola osinaike: And I just think from my my mindset, I always feel that it’s better to take a chance that something could get better rather than sticking with the status quo that just doesn’t work for you, so I think I didn’t feel like it was failure, and it was it didn’t fear fearful at the time.

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Jason Mefford: But, which is great and that’s the kind of attitude that we need to have right because, again, a lot of a lot of people, a lot of people stay stuck or they’re out.

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Jason Mefford: Even in that pain right because they’re they they believe that making another mistake might be more painful than what they’re actually focusing on right now so having you know there there’s a there’s a tip for everybody right is is kind of thinking in that way of.

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Jason Mefford: You know it’s it’s not if you’re in a point in your life, where you feel like there’s pain yeah might as well make another choice that hopefully will get you out of that right well.

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nicola osinaike: Definitely, I think.

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Jason Mefford: Now the other thing, and I think what it what it kind of shows in your career, too, is you know I love, I think it was Steve Jobs Stanford.

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Jason Mefford: commencement speech, where he said, you know as you go through life, you can never really connect the dots until you turn around and look backwards and then what seems like a random path in life.

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Jason Mefford: You look back and see that those dots actually line up so again, you know you started off as a mechanical engineer, you did a bunch of other stuff in the meantime yeah but did all of those little things end up helping you get to exactly where you’re supposed to be today.

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nicola osinaike: Strangely, yes I think so because I mean I joined an audit and I another five years of study qualified as the chartered internal auditor, which I love, but.

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nicola osinaike: I think very early on in my career, I in my audit career, I knew I was different I just didn’t think the way everybody else kind of thought and I was like, why are we not using data, why are we sample test, then it just didn’t really make sense to me and.

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nicola osinaike: A few things happened and I think this is the fear factor, it was a bit aggressive, to be quite honest, so people when I kind of raised it, people will kind of like well that’s not the way we do things around here that it was that kind of.

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Jason Mefford: That would be uncomfortable to have to do something different.

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nicola osinaike: Right, and I think that raises an interesting point about fear, so I think sometimes you can be fearful, and it can lead you to stay in your comfort zone and stay where you are.

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nicola osinaike: But on the other side, it can lead you to kind of ensure that everybody around you stays where they are.

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nicola osinaike: And that that was essentially where it gets dangerous because because you’re fearful of change you’re stifling everybody else around you.

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nicola osinaike: And I kind of started to feel a little bit like that, hence I kind of moved on, but.

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nicola osinaike: I think that that is the challenge with, especially the business environment changing as fast as it’s changing.

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nicola osinaike: There are a lot of people that are scared of the change so instead of maybe going well i’m going to embrace it a little or may not get it right first time but i’m going to at least let it in.

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nicola osinaike: they’re stopping everybody around them from embracing it because they’re fearful of what’s going to happen if if change occurs, so I definitely did see the aggressive side of what they can do.

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Jason Mefford: Well it’s interesting because you know you bring up a great point that it holds others around you back yeah, but it also holds you back right and you made a very interesting comment that I want to, I want to touch on.

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Jason Mefford: Because a lot of people feel the same way, you did right, so you said you know I get in here and I realized i’m a little different.

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Jason Mefford: And I was asking some questions you know and the people around me are like cool Why would you want to change, why would you want to do anything different right.

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Jason Mefford: This is the way we’ve done it for 50 years, why not right, I mean that’s that’s that’s like people and i’m sure there were people like this, you know when Einstein came out with a theory of relativity.

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Jason Mefford: yeah they were probably like Why would we want to do that we’ve been doing newtonian physics for 400 years, why would we want to change.

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Jason Mefford: Because we figured out a better way to do it, you know it’s it kind of seems like like common sense but.

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Jason Mefford: But I you know a lot of people that I talked to feel exactly like you did right i’m a little different and at that point you kind of had the choice right you could decide to.

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Jason Mefford: just do what everybody else was telling you and kind of move yourself back into what they expected, which was not who you are.

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Jason Mefford: Or you could choose to just be yourself and do things different.

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Jason Mefford: Right and you chose to.

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nicola osinaike: Different.

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Jason Mefford: To do things different right.

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nicola osinaike: But that has taken quite a few years of confidence building, I would say, so I think now i’ve grown i’m, on the other side, and I see the benefit.

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nicola osinaike: of being different.

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nicola osinaike: But I think when you’re in that situation and you see your different and you’re calling things out and everybody’s saying you’re crazy, I think it is very easy just to go back in the box, but.

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nicola osinaike: Now I see the world differently, and I think the world needs different, the world needs change and i’m quite proud to be completely different so i’m embracing being different, though.

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Jason Mefford: Well, and that’s that’s good that’s one of the reasons why I, like you, so much to yours and you’re smiling you’re laughing right, I mean people there.

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Jason Mefford: Listen to this are probably you know let’s you’re watching the video you can’t see it but she’s got a big smile on her face right and and you know myself as somebody who people kind of have seen as crazy and different for a lot of years.

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Jason Mefford: You know what you brought up there about the confidence is is an important thing right because it scares people because they don’t know.

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Jason Mefford: But the problem is you’re not going to know until you actually try it right, but again, you can you can decide to just go along and fit the mold.

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Jason Mefford: Of what other people expect you to be or you can be yourself now i’m guessing.

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Jason Mefford: So again, you know as you were kind of talking about your career path, I could see the the dots lining up as you were talking about it.

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Jason Mefford: What do you think would have happened if you came in to audit and you had all these ideas you know why are we using data you’re bringing all these things up to people.

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Jason Mefford: And what do you think would have happened if you would have listened to everybody else and just conformed to what the expectations were.

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nicola osinaike: I just think maybe the person I am it just wouldn’t i’m just not a very good can former, I think, but I think i’ve.

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nicola osinaike: You know, maybe, when I was younger I would have been a bit more stubborn but i’ve now seen you can be a nonconformist in a very professional manner so.

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nicola osinaike: There are more than one way to skin a cat put it that way, so I think now I am trying to be much braver and i’m trying to use my voice.

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nicola osinaike: To kind of cool things out more and I don’t feel afraid to do that so i’m kind of you know, in the audit world i’m sure you know we’ve been talking about data analytics I think I went back to about 30 years.

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Jason Mefford: Remember right right.

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nicola osinaike: Right and then i’m a bit like well clearly just telling everybody that we need to embrace data analytics has not worked.

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nicola osinaike: So i’m kind of looking in a different direction going let’s find out why what is the root cause so i’m more interested in understanding why and.

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nicola osinaike: I think the more I thought about it i’ve seen very similar traits between all day and actually the wider business because.

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nicola osinaike: If you think about the way that workers are trained right, we are processed driven we are we learned how to do steps.

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nicola osinaike: Even with IT systems we learn how to press the buttons in the right order and that’s very comfortable we’re moving into a world where.

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nicola osinaike: There is no precedent there’s nothing to compare the problems that you’re facing because we’re facing them for the first time.

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nicola osinaike: So a lot of those very traditional mindsets and decision making processes are just not working, so we have to move to something else but.

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nicola osinaike: there’s a massive cohort of people that are fearful that this different is going to make them redundant essentially.

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nicola osinaike: And they’re stifling change but i’m kind of like you’re just it’s a bit of a false economy because you’re just kind of shooting yourself in the foot, really, so I think it’s coming.

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Jason Mefford: Well it’s coming that’s why you know I use terms like you know dylan’s the times, they are a changing.

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Jason Mefford: Their changing folks in and it’s you know you can.

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Jason Mefford: You can choose to just be the ostrich and stick your head in the sand and try to ignore it, or you can do something about it, you can make a choice you can choose to retool yourself get re educated.

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Jason Mefford: Because the reality is things are changing and we need different skill sets both technical you know, like like we’re talking about from an internal audit perspective and data analytics.

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Jason Mefford: but also in managing change and working in more self directed teams, you know in doing a lot of things like that, as well that we’ve got to come up you know we’ve we’ve got to upscale ourself.

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Jason Mefford: we’re going to get left behind, and you know again there’s a lot of people, though, that, until the pain gets bad enough, they just don’t want to change right.

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nicola osinaike: um, but I think we’re not quite at the point where the motivation is strong enough to push the majority in that direction so.

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nicola osinaike: And most technologists will know if you don’t keep up your skills, you will not be employable.

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nicola osinaike: Because the the tech move so quickly, you have to keep yourself up to date and there’s a lot of reading in your own time and upscaling yourself now especially an audit.

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nicola osinaike: You can very easily getting dropping audit tomorrow with no data skills at all it’s completely fine So where is the motivation to learn, and I think until that shift moves it’s a bit of a difficult sell really at the moment.

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Jason Mefford: yeah there’s always the early adopters you know, like you and me that that see this, we see this count.

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Jason Mefford: You know and it’s and it’s like.

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Jason Mefford: You know, it always surprises me when people you know from risk management or anything you know it’s like I was so surprised how did.

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Jason Mefford: How could that ever happened i’m thinking we’ve known this is going to happen for five years we didn’t know when.

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Jason Mefford: but can you not see the trends right, but a lot of people choose choose not to, and so it is it’s always the brave people, the people with the with the courage.

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Jason Mefford: At the beginning to actually go out and try to do things different and eventually.

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Jason Mefford: everybody else will end up coming along right but but for a lot of people it’s not until the until the pain is too much so so let’s so let’s talk about that maybe a little bit because you know, like we said.

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Jason Mefford: mistakes are a part of life, but I even say there really are no mistakes it’s just feedback right because everything that you do get you closer.

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Jason Mefford: To where you need to be sometimes those things don’t work out the way we thought they were going to like you know your career you’re not designing airplanes anymore, unless you do that for fun on the side I don’t know you might have a hot no not.

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Jason Mefford: Used I used to dry airplanes actually when I was little so when you when you would say that it was like that’s funny I used to actually like draw pictures of airplanes and how they were going to anyway.

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Jason Mefford: wasn’t I wasn’t a mechanical engineer at that point nevermind.

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Jason Mefford: yeah but um.

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Jason Mefford: But yeah so so there really are no mistakes anyway, but what what kind of holds people back from wanting to try something new.

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nicola osinaike: I think I feel it’s a muscle I think it’s practice, so I think if you thought about it, like if you chose to learn the guitar right.

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nicola osinaike: Nobody would pick up a guitar and in the first lesson expect to play a really complicated song first time it’s it’s just silly right.

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nicola osinaike: So I think people will look at that kind of thing and mistakes are acceptable, but they look at the workplace and learning skills and try new things in a corporate sense and it’s suddenly unacceptable to make a mistake.

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nicola osinaike: And I think sometimes it’s quite easy for corporations to look at you know very creative industries like you know, Google and Facebook.

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nicola osinaike: And they’re like Oh, we want to be like them, we want to digitally transform and we want to be agile and we’re gonna say every buzzword in the dictionary.

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nicola osinaike: But they’re really just words, because the thing is unless you look at the culture of those organizations you’re never going to emulate their success and.

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nicola osinaike: it’s probably I feel quite confident in saying there’s probably.

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nicola osinaike: Limited specific direction and Facebook there’s a lot of autonomy for them to just be creative for them to come up with ideas for them to be problem solvers.

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nicola osinaike: Now, if you have an organization that is very dictatorial you’ve got a lot of rules and procedures order is very procedural driven.

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nicola osinaike: it’s very unreasonable to expect that entire cohort to suddenly be creative.

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nicola osinaike: data is creative and we’re just expecting all of these very process driven people to suddenly be creative and look at data and make sense of it and it’s a completely different muscle.

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nicola osinaike: So I think if people just saw their career development in the same way as potentially it sounds a bit silly but learning the guitar just be kind to yourself, and I think leaders need to have that appreciation that mistakes adjust learn and nothing more.

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Jason Mefford: Well it’s that’s again that’s a great analogy right because again it’s it’s it’s leaders being being patient with the people that are working with.

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Jason Mefford: but also our self, you know as well, because I see so many people that you know, again, it will just use the guitar right got one sitting back there right.

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Jason Mefford: Now, if I if I pick up that guitar that one happens to be an acoustic the Nice fender you know super strat is over here in the corner, but let’s say I pick up the super strap right.

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Jason Mefford: And the first time I pick it up, I expect to be able to do an eddie van halen riff and ain’t gonna happen right.

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Jason Mefford: Because again, it takes practice, I mean that man practiced every day for hours to be able to do what he did.

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Jason Mefford: So it would be silly for me to think that I could just pick it up and just boom have it right, but how much of the time, do we do that, especially in the business area.

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Jason Mefford: And then we try it once we make a mistake and then we’re hard on herself to right it’s like Jason you’re so stupid I can’t believe that you can’t play like eddie after just you know buying it and picking it up one time, and it seems a little extreme.

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Jason Mefford: But you know, for those of you listening if you’re honest with yourself how many times have you had those kind of conversations in your head.

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Jason Mefford: And I guess and it’s a lot.

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nicola osinaike: I think, but I think it’s normal, but I think, because we don’t talk about it enough if you experienced that you think you’re the only one, I saw a very interesting statistic from the UK recently, so I don’t know if you know the term data literacy, but it’s essentially a skill to.

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nicola osinaike: be able to look at data analyze it communicate it make sense of it essentially and there was a very large survey done across the UK asking leaders if they have a data skills gap and 60% said absolutely not.

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Jason Mefford: And then interesting.

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nicola osinaike: Right so.

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Jason Mefford: percent of the people are lying to themselves.

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nicola osinaike: This This is my point 60% of the people surveyed said no, there is no data literacy gap, however 50% of those same organizations are directly recruiting for data roles.

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nicola osinaike: Then I think it was something like 45% said, we want to train our internal people on data.

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nicola osinaike: And then not like I think 5% had been trained in the last two years, so there is a big difference between what people are saying and what’s happening.

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nicola osinaike: And I just don’t know if there’s a fear of especially leaders in the boardroom saying we don’t have the skills, what are we going to do to get them.

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nicola osinaike: So you get this strange kind of nodding effect where everybody says it’s fine it’s fine it’s fine but it’s not it’s not it’s not.

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nicola osinaike: And then everybody says it’s fine so, then the next person says it’s fine and then there is no plan to actually address the problem, it seems I think it’s a corporate thing.

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Jason Mefford: Well, because you know again it’s as humans and as organizations we’re afraid to admit that we don’t have our shit together.

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Jason Mefford: Okay, I mean that’s that’s just a reality right and so again we go through life, most of us go through life.

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Jason Mefford: You know lying to ourselves to make ourselves feel better instead of actually fixing the underlying root cause and you know trying something different learning and moving forward.

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Jason Mefford: And I think it’s interesting because I wanted to double back you know, again on because because we’re talking about you know.

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Jason Mefford: Data literacy and and some of this stuff along with that you brought up the point about you know the data is creative and so I wanted to go there just for a minute because.

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Jason Mefford: it’s interesting I was just preparing for a speech that i’m giving the end of the month and it’s it’s to risk managers Okay, but it’s same same kinds of concepts right where a lot of times, people will.

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Jason Mefford: they’ll look at data risk management uses a lot of data they crunch, a lot of numbers and they believe that everything is just scientific its mathematical it’s you know that’s that’s all it is the data we don’t need to worry about qualitative don’t trust your gut just rely on the data.

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Jason Mefford: So it’s interesting that you bring this up, because you know, one of the slides that I have in my speech is about it’s the art and the science and so interestingly enough, you know if you if you take a look at somebody like Leonardo da Vinci.

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Jason Mefford: One of the greatest artists of all time also one of the greatest scientists of all time, so he he was you know multi disciplinary.

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Jason Mefford: In that way, in fact, you know, most of the of the greatest scientists, we already mentioned Einstein before right.

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Jason Mefford: Well, he was a very artistic man as well right and that’s what helped him lead to some of the some of this stuff so it’s a marrying.

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Jason Mefford: of both it’s not either or right so maybe talk a little bit more about that because, again, you know for the for the people that are listening that are in that data field.

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Jason Mefford: they’re gonna they probably heard that and they kind of went what she must have just made a mistake and what she said, but you didn’t.

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Jason Mefford: You didn’t.

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nicola osinaike: Know right, no, no, and i’m trying to think of the best way to answer that I mean I would class myself as highly data literate so I can look at a situation.

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nicola osinaike: I can decide what data I need how I need to analyze it and then I can look at graphs and say that doesn’t look right or.

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nicola osinaike: i’m looking at this data, this is telling me that we should go in this direction, so I would describe myself as being data literate like that.

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nicola osinaike: i’m not an amazing coder i’m not a data scientist i’m not in that field, but I can move to different contexts, so I think all of those years, when I was engineering and doing science and math.

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nicola osinaike: I was using data in lots of different contexts, so now, you can put me in any organization and as long as I understood how the system works, I could figure out what data, you need and what it tells you, so I think the reason it is creative.

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nicola osinaike: Is because every data scenario is not the same, there are some basic principles on the things you need to do with data.

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nicola osinaike: But, depending on the question, depending on the situation dependent on the client, you need to be creative enough to think about all well.

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nicola osinaike: That looks like that sales prices going up, but because I know this about the organization, this means that.

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nicola osinaike: And I think that’s the creative element is looking at the raw numbers and then making it applicable to what’s actually going on on the ground in terms of business.

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nicola osinaike: And in terms of decision making, and I mean if you if you’re if you do any research in terms of what a lot of businesses are looking for now.

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nicola osinaike: I mean the most common bowls of data, scientists, however, data scientists are not always great at context switching.

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nicola osinaike: So you need people that understand data that understand the business to translate all of the amazing technical stuff that the scientists are coming out with.

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nicola osinaike: To make sense of it to say to the business leaders, this is the decision you should be making based on the data i’m seeing so it’s definitely a combination of science and creativity definitely.

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Jason Mefford: Well that’s why you you you you put some terms out in there, that I that I want to kind of stop and just go into a little bit Okay, because and again this is relevant for everybody.

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Jason Mefford: Okay, this is not specifically about data, but these are.

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Jason Mefford: These are again some of the trends that we’re seeing that you need to start embracing if you want to be relevant in the future right.

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Jason Mefford: And so earlier on, you talked about how we’re taught how to do things and processes right step, a step B step C step D right.

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Jason Mefford: And in fact you know when I was in college, it was interesting because I actually had some professors right they would teach a B, C D process methodology on the test that’s not how they test it.

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Jason Mefford: They tested DC be a to see if you actually understood and fully grasp the concept.

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Jason Mefford: Right and and so again there’s so many people now that are taught processes do a then B then C then D they can’t think outside of.

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Jason Mefford: That particular process, but this is one of those skills, like you just said corporations are looking for.

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Jason Mefford: People who can actually kind of see outside of the box we’ve had that term for a long time yeah right but, but our educational systems for the most part, are just teaching people how to play in the box and we’ve gotten rid of the out of the box, I mean that’s why even you know university.

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Jason Mefford: Now university is just a trade school it’s like going to school to learn how to be a plumber and all you know how to do is plumbing.

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Jason Mefford: Right in the old days it was liberal arts education right if you’re a scientist, why do you need to read the Greek and Roman classics, why do you need to have an art appreciation class right and a lot of people are saying we don’t need that.

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Jason Mefford: sounds like we actually do, though, right to make our brain work, the way that it needs to in the future.

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nicola osinaike: I think yeah it’s partly that I think you know I am not a kind of doom and gloom person i’m very positive but i’m also a realist.

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nicola osinaike: And the reality is there is technology out there come in that very easily automate routine processes.

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nicola osinaike: And I think the problem is a lot of us have kind of looked at this and it’s very easy to go this has nothing to do with me my profession is so complicated it could never be automated.

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nicola osinaike: But that’s just not true right, and I think what’s going to essentially happen is, step by step, very routine you know.

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nicola osinaike: repetitive processes will be automated and what is left is the complex problem solving.

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nicola osinaike: Now if you’re presented with a complex problem, by its very nature, you probably haven’t seen something very similar to it before, so it requires creativity diversity in the team to think of a solution right.

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nicola osinaike: So you’re going to need less people that know how to do this, step by step process, because the machines will be doing that.

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nicola osinaike: And you need more people that are able to think on their feet that essentially are able to solve a problem before it becomes a disaster.

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nicola osinaike: And I think organizations are struggling with that shift, because I think for them it’s you know very big organizations are very slow to change.

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nicola osinaike: they’re very hierarchical you know people at the top, are very comfortable they visit there’s an order of things and they enjoy kind of given out instructions and people following.

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nicola osinaike: But actually you can’t be everywhere at the same time, so if you have lots of problems popping up everywhere, if you have a workforce that are waiting to be told to fix the problem.

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nicola osinaike: Then there’s going to be fires everywhere, so I think as time goes on, they need more people that are.

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nicola osinaike: You know they brave they are willing to stick their neck out and go well, this is a problem, this is a solution, not just going to get on with it.

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nicola osinaike: And that’s how very nimble companies move so fast, so, if you look, I mean take audit for an example and internal audit as feel we are the only ones.

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nicola osinaike: And I think it’s it’s quite convenient to think that if you took one minute, just to look at the number of Ai companies for finance.

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nicola osinaike: That are popping up and doing amazing you would see straight away they’re not the only ones, but I think it’s your viewpoint.

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nicola osinaike: You kind of tell yourself that what i’m doing is special and different and it’s not what they’re doing so there’s no threat, hence I don’t need to do anything, and I think that that’s part of the problem.

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Jason Mefford: Well, it is, and just to add, you know, like you said you can look, you can look at all the finance Ai companies that are out there i’ll point to another another one World Economic Forum okay little organization in the world right that doesn’t know what they’re talking about you know.

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Jason Mefford: Two of the top five professions that they expect to see outsourced or automated in the next five years.

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Jason Mefford: IE folks What that means is people in these two professions are probably going to lose their job because it will become automated auditors and accountants.

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Jason Mefford: Now again those groups are looking at it, saying, oh no we’re so important, we know more than everybody else you can’t replace me well, if what you’re doing mainly is automated routine tasks that don’t require complex problem solving.

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Jason Mefford: you’re going to get outsourced to a computer just.

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Jason Mefford: The line.

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nicola osinaike: What was the now well I I see actually will happen is you’ll get a group that are very kind of decisive that they’re not going to shift and the tech will go around them.

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Jason Mefford: we’ve seen that already.

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Jason Mefford: yeah we’ve seen that, with these specific groups that were talking about in corporations, they they refuse to change, so the organization creates other departments to do what they need them to do that they’re unwilling to do so they’re already being worked around right now.

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Jason Mefford: And then they’re like whoa cool people are taking her work from us because you’re not doing the real work right.

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Jason Mefford: Is the sad sad story for.

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nicola osinaike: That, but I think there’s amazing opportunity, because I think.

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nicola osinaike: If you’re able to see that, for the reality is, you can maneuver yourself, you can build the skills and you can make yourself valuable in a different way, but it takes recognition and their movement.

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nicola osinaike: So I think there’s two things that needs to happen in tandem, for it to be.

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nicola osinaike: As I said, I mean the reality is these Ai companies for finance would not be a successful if the demand wasn’t there.

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nicola osinaike: And once they’re done there they’ll start moving into other areas it’s just a matter of time, and I think I mean I think back to I mean I wasn’t alive, to be honest, but when computers were first introduced I can imagine there was a.

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Jason Mefford: There was some of us were kind of around.

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nicola osinaike: I can spell I think it was possibly the same right people will not i’m not using computers i’m using a typewriter but they came anyway so.

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Jason Mefford: yeah you can’t you can’t stop it, I mean you can you can choose to be The ostrich again and stick your head in the ground but it ain’t going to happen.

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Jason Mefford: And so again, you know, hopefully, again, you should be reading between the lines as you’re listening to this because you don’t have to be an auditor a data person to.

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Jason Mefford: To see that the world is changing there’s things that you need to do differently to be able to succeed in the future right again we’ve talked about you know we’ve we’ve gotten so used to process methodologies.

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Jason Mefford: But you can’t you can’t just rely on knowing the processes, you have to learn and have some of these complex problem solving skills.

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Jason Mefford: Because the future is going to look a little different than it has before now, a lot of the things may be similar.

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Jason Mefford: And we, and we should be able to analogy guys to some historical events that were similar and probably learn from that.

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Jason Mefford: But that’s where this multi disciplinary and context switching that you that you brought up there, which again are probably some terms that some people don’t.

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Jason Mefford: don’t fully grasp, so I thought let’s just talk for a minute or two on that right, but multi disciplinary probably easier for people to understand right that you, you understand or versed in different things right, because, again we.

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Jason Mefford: The people who change the world and who add the most value are able to see different examples in other places in the world and translate that into what they’re doing right and so again, you can take you know take some examples of big companies like airbnb.

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Jason Mefford: You know uber lyft those companies right where again they saw some of the technology changes, some of the abilities to provide something that was already being delivered like that.

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Jason Mefford: In those other industries and say hold it, we can do the same thing right why, why do you have to you know go to Mary odd or Hilton to get a hotel room, what if we can set up an APP for that.

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Jason Mefford: And bypass those companies would it work well it kind of works over here so let’s try it here Sure enough, it worked right and it’s created billions of dollars worth of value and made it easier for people.

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Jason Mefford: uber lyft same thing right hey well if you can do it in a hotel space, can you do it in the taxi space, you can right, but again, it was those people having those multi disciplinary you know mindset and the complex problem solving skills that were able to find the solution.

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nicola osinaike: Exactly, but you raise another challenge, and you know the people that have started those amazing businesses, and there are people like that that may not be in big spaces, but have that same mindset.

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nicola osinaike: How do you retain them as an organization because, naturally, they do not follow rules because that’s what that was made, that is what makes them.

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nicola osinaike: Then they are creative they push the boundaries, they don’t follow ABC they want it to be all over the place, because that that’s what makes them happy and if they’re in environments that are very stifling you are not going to hold on to them you just won’t know.

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Jason Mefford: And you see that, time and time again because i’ve worked enough with startup tech companies that that usually the people who found them or the you know initial people that get it started once it becomes corporate fide right.

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Jason Mefford: Saying hey you know you go public and all of a sudden now you’ve got to follow all these rules and you bring in all the stodginess of corporations usually they end up getting asked it.

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Jason Mefford: Because they don’t conform, and so, then they go off and they start a new company right and and just keep going because again that doesn’t fit.

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Jason Mefford: Who, they are like we talked about at the beginning with you right, so instead of conforming to the corporates they just go start something new.

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Jason Mefford: And it’s interesting because you know ilan musk is one of those people now the only reason he hasn’t been kicked out he is he has never given up control.

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Jason Mefford: By right.

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Jason Mefford: So they can’t kick him out and I, and I remember hearing him on an interview one time because because people were giving him grief about.

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Jason Mefford: You know tesla you know it doesn’t have very good corporate governance, you need to get better corporate governance and we want to you know put all these little.

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Jason Mefford: Safeguards around you so you can’t do some crazy stuff you know, and he looked at him and he’s like well you know what i’m not going to do it.

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Jason Mefford: And if you want a company that has really good corporate governance on paper, I think, Ford motor company does once you go invest in them instead.

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Jason Mefford: right but market has shown, I mean tesla is one of the most valuable companies in the world, doing it his own way doing it creatively, you know, using some of these you know multi disciplinary complex problem solving skills that we’ve been talking about.

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nicola osinaike: So I think there’s room for both.

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nicola osinaike: Jason certainly I think there is room, because I think as an artist by trade, you know I am all for corporate governance.

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nicola osinaike: I think I think there’s a good balance to be struck, but the only thing I did want to say is I just think this whole concept is relevant to.

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nicola osinaike: Absolutely everybody if you’re a florist if you work in HR if you work in procurement, I think, the reality is.

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nicola osinaike: for you to make better decisions, you need a slightly different skill set I mean you need data to start with, but then you need to be able to understand what to do with it and then how to make decisions so.

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nicola osinaike: I think there’s going to be a shift in all walks of life in terms of business, not just the corporate because that the environment is so competitive.

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nicola osinaike: You need an edge to be able to compete, so you know even florists or different kinds of stores, are you know, look at the ones that have gone past because they refuse to go digital well that they’re now no longer.

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nicola osinaike: So this is what and I think.

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nicola osinaike: I think this is the reality of what happens when you are slow, but I think you know it does happen, but people just don’t believe it will be them, hence they just stay in their comfort zone.

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Jason Mefford: yeah and so to kind of you know, to kind of end and wrap up kind of where we started.

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Jason Mefford: You know, again, is it’s like.

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Jason Mefford: You know that so many people are afraid of making a mistake of doing something different of allowing themselves to actually be themselves right because again it’s it’s you add a lot more value to this world, and you will be a lot happier if you just embrace who you are.

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Jason Mefford: and be who you are.

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Jason Mefford: Right, and so you know i’ll go back to a couple of examples we talked about Elon musk now I think he’s on the autistic scale at some point right to where a lot of people would say Oh, you know he just doesn’t have what it takes well because he sees the world differently.

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Jason Mefford: And he embraces who he is that way yeah he can be a pain in the butt to work with i’ve heard some horror stories okay so i’m not i’m not i’m not i’m not endorsing that side of it but.

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Jason Mefford: Because he’s who he is and he in he he embraces that he sees the world differently than other people temple grandin is another one who you know autistic person.

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Jason Mefford: But I mean that woman has done some amazing stuff in life because she sees the world differently and embraces who she is you know and part of her life now is look.

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Jason Mefford: there’s all these other people that are a little bit different that don’t fit in the mold but it doesn’t mean that we’re not valuable.

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Jason Mefford: right we add a tremendous amount of value by seeing things in a different way and I think that’s kind of what we’ve been saying here too, and the fact that you know what look it’s.

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Jason Mefford: We don’t you don’t know until you try something and Okay, maybe it didn’t you know work out the way you were expecting it to you’re not gonna die.

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Jason Mefford: I mean most every most every decision that we have in life.

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Jason Mefford: doesn’t lead to death.

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Jason Mefford: yeah So what is there really to be afraid of anyway.

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nicola osinaike: regret.

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Jason Mefford: regret.

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nicola osinaike: I think that’s more scary than failure, personally, but you know.

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Jason Mefford: me to which is probably why why we operate the way that we do yeah and and you know it’s you know, again, maybe, maybe you’re sitting there listening to this going ooh.

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Jason Mefford: I want to, I want to do some of this, I want to be a little, I want to be a little braver have a little bit more courage in my life right.

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Jason Mefford: try to do something right you’re going to start getting evidence I mean you were talking about confidence yourself right that it’s it’s take it takes a while.

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Jason Mefford: To build up the confidence, just like it takes time to build up the confidence and playing the guitar right, but over time if you’re consistent at doing it.

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Jason Mefford: you’re going to get more confident and and then again it’s like you know what I say to and i’ve heard a few of my friends actually say something to this effect, just because i’m afraid doesn’t mean i’m not going to do it.

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nicola osinaike: yeah.

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Jason Mefford: And when you can get to that point in your life, you know to where you say yeah that scares me a little bit, but i’m gonna do it anyway.

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Jason Mefford: You know i’m gonna go ride the ball, you know if I if I get an opportunity to write a bowl and i’ve written mechanical bulls before.

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Jason Mefford: real life bovines right but.

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Jason Mefford: Ah, but you know it’s like yeah you know hey Jason you want to ride the ball it’s like yeah what’s the worst that’s gonna happen i’m gonna fall on you know some foam.

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Jason Mefford: It ain’t gonna kill me, and it was actually pretty fun.

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nicola osinaike: Right well you’re.

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Jason Mefford: Not trying it because the more you regret not trying it.

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Jason Mefford: Well, in and that’s you know again it’s how many people at the end of their life.

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Jason Mefford: are filled with regret.

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Jason Mefford: don’t be that person right don’t be that person just live your life now be who you are embrace embrace who you are look at the world differently.

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Jason Mefford: develop some of these skills, I don’t know trying to wrap up a little summary, am I missing anything kind of final thoughts, you know from you to leave everybody with.

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nicola osinaike: I just I think like I said the balance is always Is it better, is it less painful to stay in a bad situation rather than take a risk and try something different, I think that’s the balance I think most for most people.

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nicola osinaike: The fear of failure is less it’s just the perception, I think, of being a grown up and I don’t think it’s really accepted that grown ups make mistakes, and I think that’s part of the problem.

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Jason Mefford: is grown ups to make mistakes i’ve been a grown up long enough that.

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Jason Mefford: I promise we do make mistakes and it’s okay.

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nicola osinaike: I tell my kids all the time it’s perfectly fine.

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Jason Mefford: yeah well, thank you for taking the time today, you know for people that want to reach out to you how else, the best way to get Ahold of you.

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nicola osinaike: And so you can find us on my website so that’s www dot audit data hub.com you can follow me on linkedin so we’ve got audit data hub.

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nicola osinaike: Or the data hub on linkedin or Nicola ocean I cater that’s O s I n Ay Ay ke on linked in.

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nicola osinaike: And I am an advocate for data for everyone so non technical data training, so if you’re interested or you just want to know more about how you can upscale yourself in data just be brave get in touch and i’m happy to have a conversation yeah.

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Jason Mefford: Perfect well again, thank you for coming on because I know it’s you know your life has been proof right to people that.

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Jason Mefford: hey we’re gonna we’re going to take course corrections in life and everything is going to work out everything happens for you not to you.

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Jason Mefford: And you know, again we get to where exactly where we need to be by going through even what we might consider as mistakes sometimes it’s just a part of life and it’s really not a mistake anyway it’s just feedback, so you can make a better decision next time.

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nicola osinaike: Great.

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Jason Mefford: So with that Thank you might have to have you back.

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nicola osinaike: Thank you for having me.

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nicola osinaike: Thanks all right.

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