E154: Balancing Work / Life Commitments When Working from Home with Dawn Vogel

With the removal of the work / life compartmentalization since working from home (i.e. the decompression time on the commute home, the dedicated focused attention when you closed your office door, etc…) the world of remote work and working from home under COVID has affect our productivity quite a lot.

From finding workspace at home, raising children, internet bandwidth issues, and dealing with life in general, adaptability and communication is key.

Today we’re joined by Dawn Vogel who will share tips with us on how to handle this added stress of working at home.

Listen in at: https://www.jasonmefford.com/jammingwithjason/

Transcript

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Jason Mefford: Welcome to another episode of Jamming with Jason. Hey today I’ve got a very.

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Jason Mefford: Special episode. I’m going to be talking to Dawn Vogel about something that i’m pretty sure almost every one of you is dealing with.

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Jason Mefford: And this is an important topic that I know lots of people are dealing with in something that honestly I personally.

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Jason Mefford: am not dealing with because my kids are all grown and gone they’re out of the House right.

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Jason Mefford: So today we’re going to talk a little bit about you know how to manage and all of these different stresses and anxieties and other stuff that you are probably dealing with.

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Jason Mefford: As you have children, you know you’re a leader and now all of a sudden, with a pandemic and things that we’ve been living through now all of a sudden, you have a whole bunch of additional roles.

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Jason Mefford: And how do you start becoming more adaptable and flexible, so you can take care of your family, as well as your career so with that let’s roll the episode and we’ll bring don in.

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Jason Mefford: hey don I am i’m so excited like I said I mean we’ve known each other for a while and I really.

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Jason Mefford: I really appreciate you taking time to talk about this because, as I told you, before I feel for people I empathize for people, but I am not in this situation right, I mean my kids are all grown they’re gone they’re out of the House, they live in different states.

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Jason Mefford: And and and so i’m excited to just kind of go through and talk with you so welcome today.

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Dawn Vogel: Thanks Jason i’m i’m very happy to help, and you know talk about where wherever this goes, I know that sometimes I always I, or at least during this time.

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Dawn Vogel: I look at various resources to find out things on how to handle it, but the reality is every case is different, and you have to pick and choose or.

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Jason Mefford: Well, I know it’s it, you know I find myself at times like that, and so I don’t know if you’ve kind of been there, too, but it’s like.

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Jason Mefford: You know you have a question that’s like hollins Google it right let’s see what other people are doing, and that can be helpful, but sometimes it can also be.

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Jason Mefford: It can take you down rabbit holes that are kind of crazy right so like like if you’ve ever you know all i’ve got this little ailment and.

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Jason Mefford: You start doing a Google search and maybe you have a headache and all of a sudden, you know 20 minutes into it you’re like oh my gosh I have cancer right yes everything.

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Jason Mefford: always comes back the cancer when you’re looking for health stuff in so i’m sure it’s it’s that way to as you’ve kind of navigated through this so you know again we’ve been in kind of locked down for or.

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Jason Mefford: Whatever we want to call it right for a year now so so maybe talk a little bit about because, because I know you know you’re an executive leader you’re leading people in your in your organization, but you also have a small child.

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Jason Mefford: As well right so so maybe let’s just get in and start talking about what are some of the challenges you’ve been experiencing.

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Jason Mefford: You know what are the some of the things you’ve learned.

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Jason Mefford: This year, and maybe again if there’s even any things that you’re still kind of struggling with like you know how do I do this, so we can we can kind of share with other people and give people a resource to kind of go back to.

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Dawn Vogel: Definitely so overview, you know, like everybody else march of 2020 we get the word that you know our offices are closing everybody has to work from home and school is now going to be from home as well.

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Dawn Vogel: And my son is 10 he’ll be he’ll be 11 in a couple of months so he’s in elementary school transitioning to middle school, so the I guess I don’t know if it’s good news or bad news, but the the adults got to transition home first.

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Dawn Vogel: And then.

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Dawn Vogel: Then spring break happen so at least we kind of my husband and I had probably about a week of us working from home full time.

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Dawn Vogel: Getting everything set up he has an office and i’m in a spare spare bedroom we had to find workspace and then my son was on spring break so At first we didn’t have to worry about anything and we didn’t know what was going to happen, and so, then we found out, we had to find him a space.

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Dawn Vogel: And one of the.

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Dawn Vogel: So one of the first interesting things that happened was the first couple days and all three of us are on the Internet.

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Dawn Vogel: When we really look at you know, things would stop and start, well then, we had to you know hit the pause button and then.

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Dawn Vogel: My husband had a goal find us some.

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Dawn Vogel: booster Internet boosters.

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Dawn Vogel: And set in set those up in the you know set those up in the House.

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Dawn Vogel: And then, of course, when we got closer to school winding down in about June that’s when the gaming started with my son in the streaming and then we have to readjust once again.

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Jason Mefford: That was taking up more bandwidth that was taken out more bandwidth and.

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Dawn Vogel: Then zoom meeting, so it was basically you know constant adjustment, I think I would describe if I did describe give one word to this whole thing, it would have to be adaptability, you know in constant adapting to different situations.

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Jason Mefford: yeah well because it because it’s interesting so like you said you know you and your husband got a week or so, to begin with, where okay first off you guys are home then your son comes home for spring break so he’s off for a week as well right.

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Jason Mefford: Then it goes back to school, but then I think at that point, it, it turns into virtual school for him.

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Jason Mefford: Yes, then you go for a couple of months, and then all of a sudden he’s off on summer break, again to right so So what are some of the you know I know.

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Jason Mefford: Before this we we all kind of have these discrete little containers, if you will, right, you probably had a routine in the morning.

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Jason Mefford: You get up everybody has breakfast you know, whoever is going to drop your son off at school takes him to school.

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Jason Mefford: Right, he he comes back home, however, he comes back home, you know kind of thing he might be there for an hour to by himself and you guys are there again in the evening.

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Jason Mefford: And you don’t have that now right so so you have those routines before.

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Jason Mefford: And now you don’t I mean How does that impact, you know your work day your husband’s work day other stuff like that, as well because.

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Jason Mefford: I mean, I remember when when my when my kids were little, and it was like constant interruption right to so So how do you how do you kind of deal with that in in trying to we always just talked before about work life balance right and that was now you’re actually really.

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Dawn Vogel: Living yes.

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Jason Mefford: True work life balance, because you don’t have that separation.

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Dawn Vogel: Correct I would say, we had to learn very quickly, how to communicate better.

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Okay.

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Dawn Vogel: What I mean by that is in in you have to repeat like nobody knew.

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Dawn Vogel: What each other did like you know, especially for my son.

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Dawn Vogel: He doesn’t didn’t understand the concept of what adults do when they’re working.

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Dawn Vogel: haha and so like you said, the interruptions so At first I started by saying okay just verbally saying to everyone in the House, I have a meeting from you know eight to nine whatever whatever the timing was I have meetings here’s my schedule.

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Dawn Vogel: and go into the room close the door and Lo and behold five minutes after I just told them i’m going into a meeting, please don’t interrupt.

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Dawn Vogel: Somebody walks in it could have been my husband, it was my husband, just as much as it was my son, although with there was only one occasion where my son walked in in his underwear.

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Dawn Vogel: And kind of walked walked in in the screen and the good news is it was people that I knew very well, I had a really good relationship with they knew I had a son and they just kind of they just kind of chuckled and.

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Dawn Vogel: We went about our business, but then after would be to have you know another conversation.

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About.

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Dawn Vogel: I said, you know I have meetings I said, you know it’s important to have boundaries and and then I said Okay, so the next thing I did was got some post, it notes stuck them on the outside of the door for everybody to read.

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Dawn Vogel: Well, sometimes that did not work either people would just walk in and then we’d have to have another conversation about I don’t understand what I need to do, and you may ask why don’t I just lock my door.

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Dawn Vogel: Well, when we built this House it’s probably about 10 years old.

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Dawn Vogel: Knowing that we would have children, somebody suggested you don’t want to put locks on your children’s door, so you don’t put locks on any of the spare bedroom doors.

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Dawn Vogel: So he didn’t well turns out now locks would probably be very useful situation.

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Dawn Vogel: But um it just took a little you know little bit of time i’m a little bit I don’t think it’s a little bit it probably took months for people to understand.

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Dawn Vogel: When I when my doors closed, and I have a post it note on the door that means don’t come in, and I would try to.

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Dawn Vogel: prop them, you know, a couple minutes before okay guys going into a meeting can’t please don’t interrupt me for the next hour need anything nope Okay, and it did get it to get better and it just takes you know takes practice on the reverse side to.

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Dawn Vogel: When you’re home with your spouse you’re used to just coming up with an you have some idea or activity, you need to talk about.

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Dawn Vogel: And you use just going to wander over wherever they may be, in your House to talk about it with them.

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Dawn Vogel: Well, I would do that to my husband, he would look like he wasn’t doing anything just looking at his computer and i’m used to see him sitting in his office doing you know personal no Internet searches that kind of thing.

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Dawn Vogel: And just get used to just walking in and talking about whatever it is, you need to talk about well that’s disruptive.

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Dawn Vogel: Because and i’m sure everybody feels this you get into a flow of your work and if you’re constantly being disrupted you eventually get very frustrated and irritable, to the point where you start having some.

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Dawn Vogel: heat not heated discussions, but you can just get frustrated and sense there’s no one else to vent your frustrations because you’re stuck in your House with your.

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Dawn Vogel: husband and son eventually sometimes they end up being it, you know a little more a little louder than maybe they would.

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Dawn Vogel: normally be.

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Dawn Vogel: Well, you just you just work through it and had you know, communication and I like to thank, even though we had to experience some of those.

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Dawn Vogel: times at the at the early time of the pandemic and my you know my son was here, and obviously seeing this I like to think that it was actually a good thing, because we all learn how to be better communicators and how and how to be more respectful of of just people.

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Dawn Vogel: There we know when they’re working when they’re not working, and just being more respectful in general, meaning try to get your own frustrations under control, so that you don’t take it out on others.

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Jason Mefford: yeah well that’s really important, I think you know that point that you made about the boundaries because it’s.

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Jason Mefford: I always joke to my wife that i’m kind of an absent minded Professor right so.

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Jason Mefford: So i’m like off thinking about whatever and it’s the same thing, like what you said, with your husband right he’s.

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Jason Mefford: he’s sitting there and it looks like he’s not doing anything so let’s just take this opportunity to talk about whatever we need to and he’s like damn it you’re interrupting me.

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Jason Mefford: look like you’re doing anything right and and that idea of having those boundaries, you know when we were going to work to a workplace usually there were those physical boundaries, so it was able, you know it was easier for us to turn on and turn off the work brain right.

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Jason Mefford: Yes, you know a lot of people would use the time traveling to work or coming home, especially the coming home as kind of a de decompressing time that you don’t really.

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Jason Mefford: have now and and having those boundaries is important right, I mean i’ve worked from home for 10 years so i’m very.

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Jason Mefford: familiar with it, but at the same point, you know, up until.

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Jason Mefford: I was a little over a year ago my wife hadn’t had a job outside of the home right and so she had that physical separation and so again when she.

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Jason Mefford: You know started helping me and working with my businesses, she she didn’t understand or have those boundaries either right.

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Jason Mefford: And there would be times when all of a sudden, I would have some thought at eight o’clock at night.

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Jason Mefford: And it’s like oh hey we’re just sitting here, and you don’t want to talk about it she’s like that’s business, you know we’re not supposed to be talking about that, after.

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Jason Mefford: A certain time right, so we actually set boundaries for ourselves that, if we talk about business after six o’clock, we have to pay our bedding jar.

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Jason Mefford: penalty or if I say something I have to put money in the JAR to so that we could kind of keep those boundaries, because for her it was hard to know well okay what when his work and when is not work right.

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Dawn Vogel: Definitely, and I think adding school into that.

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Dawn Vogel: You know, having a child and how school.

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Dawn Vogel: That because came even more interesting.

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Dawn Vogel: One of the things I know I did, and I believe my husband did as well is first we had to figure out what our what our son schedule was and what what it meant what kind of assistance and support, we need to provide him and we found out okay.

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Dawn Vogel: He needs support from you know eight to 10 o’clock in the morning, at least on the front, at least on you know, like a year ago, on when that when it first started happening, and so we both had to go to our employers or you know our bosses and say look.

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Dawn Vogel: This is the way it is our kid is you know in elementary school he needs a lot of support and so from eight to 10, this is what we’re going to do.

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Dawn Vogel: And then we actually figured out between my husband, and I think this is also very important, you do have to split the responsibilities, because.

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Dawn Vogel: It gets doing it all every day by yourself gets hard, and so you have to divide, you know.

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Dawn Vogel: divide, so we figured out okay he’s going to do the literacy and the social studies and i’m going to do the math you know the math and science, so we would split it up, but then, once we have that figured out we both went to our employers and said.

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Dawn Vogel: we’re not working from eight to 10 in the morning because we have to help us, you know help our son.

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Dawn Vogel: And we said, you know what will check our email make sure we’re not missing anything important but, for the most part we’re not available between eight and 10.

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Dawn Vogel: And they said Okay, but what that also meant was is so between 10 and you know five or you know, whatever the hours were we were working.

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Dawn Vogel: And then we’d have to stop you know stop take some breaks, you know, we need to eat to be would need to eat, but that would that would also mean is maybe.

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Dawn Vogel: One of us had to go back and work for another hour or so, to get some work kind of things done at night, so it was really you know, a balancing act, and I think.

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Dawn Vogel: One of the things I noticed now after doing that for approximately a year it’s hard to focus very hard to focus because you’re jumping from.

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Dawn Vogel: activity to activity to activity and it’s about you know prioritizing like who needs help and what what actions need to get done.

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Dawn Vogel: But we’re still we’re still doing that, but I have one of the things i’ve noticed is it’s getting harder and harder to focus because there’s no.

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Dawn Vogel: there’s it’s almost like we can’t turn one off and turn on the other, like we’re it’s always a constant we have you know work responsibilities we have school responsibilities, fortunately, my son is able to participate in some extracurricular activities like some.

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Dawn Vogel: You know, basketball and some esports which he needs because it’s really is only way you get some social interaction.

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Jason Mefford: Which is.

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Dawn Vogel: Which is very important, so it’s we lost the compartmentalization and.

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Dawn Vogel: Now becomes a part of you know, we have these activities that we have to do in a day.

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Dawn Vogel: And it just gets bumped from one to another, and maybe one day is more work and more home and in vice versa, so I would say that part of it is becoming more difficult because it’s just it’s makes your brain tired to have to think about that all the time.

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Jason Mefford: Well yeah and I wanna I want to talk more about the hard to focus, but before we go there, I just want to kind of double back on something that you that we were just talking about there, which is.

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Jason Mefford: You know the this whole idea of you know you had to both you and your husband.

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Jason Mefford: had to kind of go back to your employers and say look, you know, based on my son’s schedule.

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Jason Mefford: I really kind of need to have you know these two hours in the morning, where i’m unavailable right so i’m guessing at that point yet to kind of.

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Jason Mefford: Like block your calendar certain days from from eight to 10 so that.

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Jason Mefford: So that nobody got onto your calendar, and they would have to understand you know that as well that, for certain parts of the day, whatever they they are going to be i’m going to be a little unavailable.

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Jason Mefford: But i’m sure it works, the same thing with the people that that work for you as well, right, so this had to become kind of a juggling act between not only.

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Jason Mefford: kind of managing up but also managing down and realizing and having empathy for the people that work for you they’re in the same situation you are.

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Right yeah.

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Dawn Vogel: that’s.

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Dawn Vogel: that’s exactly right.

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Dawn Vogel: And then.

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Jason Mefford: It How does that all kind of work out because again it’s like everybody’s going to have kind of some different schedules i’m guessing to so.

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Dawn Vogel: Well then, it becomes priorities, it becomes very I would say my employer was great with being you know there, they are like whatever you need.

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Dawn Vogel: It so it was almost like whatever you need, as long as you get the work you know just here’s what we need to get done by you know, this time, however, whatever you need to get that done.

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Dawn Vogel: You know we’ll we’ll figure it out and so that that really helped, because then it became you know prioritization.

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Dawn Vogel: We need to get you know xyz project on by Friday, and so, and so is going to be doing more of the work at night, and maybe so and so’s going to be doing more of their work in the morning.

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Dawn Vogel: If you play if you talk through it and communicate and and prioritize everything.

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Dawn Vogel: It actually works out pretty well because, especially in an audit situation where there’s you know audit work and then audit review, you could plan it out pretty well where you know, maybe somebody was working on something later at nights or after you know.

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Dawn Vogel: I guess now it’s kind of hard to say what normal work hours are but.

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Dawn Vogel: They would get their their work done, you know, maybe between five and eight one night but then it would be ready for me to review right away in the morning.

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Dawn Vogel: And if I got on you know and i’m sure everybody else has stories wherever they’re working you know they were logged on it, five or six o’clock in the morning or 11 1011 midnight at night.

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Dawn Vogel: i’m sure people, people do that, but you know part of it was you know, a balancing act so like I said, maybe they worked on there’s five to eight at night, and then, if I logged on at seven in the morning, I could get it, I could get the review done and it actually you know worked.

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Jason Mefford: Well, because, like you said it does it does require that adaptability and.

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Jason Mefford: Flexibility right, I mean because I i’ve got, for example, i’ve got somebody on my team who he he’s a night owl right, I mean he’ll he’ll stay up sometimes until 234 o’clock in the morning.

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Jason Mefford: And so, he prefers to do a lot of his work then well i’m i’m already way asleep, you know at that point, but again, it was that same thing of communicating with him having those regular check ins right because we have regular check in standing meetings for certain times of the week.

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Jason Mefford: Just to make sure that there’s enough of an overlap, but like you said you know as long as we get the work done, then it doesn’t really matter.

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Jason Mefford: Right, because I know like he was I was talking with them actually on Friday.

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Jason Mefford: And he asked me a question he’s like yeah I didn’t I didn’t finish this because you know I had this question on it, but you told me it wasn’t due until the end of the month and I realized sunday’s the end of the month, so i’ll still get it done then.

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Jason Mefford: You know, Friday afternoon he’s talking to me about this and he’s like so he was working Saturday Sunday.

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Jason Mefford: To get it finished, but you know again that’s okay that’s that’s the flexibility that he has in his schedule, as long as the work gets done so, you know, I think it sounds like one of the.

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Jason Mefford: Leadership lessons for us, if you will, is you know just get the work done and allow people to be flexible and have that.

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Dawn Vogel: empathy.

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Jason Mefford: to realize that work hours are not going to be eight to five.

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Dawn Vogel: Right.

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Jason Mefford: Yes, they always used to be, because we’ve got all this other stuff that has to get done to.

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Jason Mefford: yeah.

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Dawn Vogel: And then, if an emergency popped up like it usually doesn’t know in the audit world learn what I could do is say you know it happened this morning.

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Dawn Vogel: there’s something out there to my team and Mike I need this done today who can work on it and then usually pete you know people you know people respond, you know I can do that, and as long as you tell them.

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Dawn Vogel: You know this is now a priority, one I know, yesterday I said he was priority one, but now be is as long as you tell folks what the priorities are and when it needs to get done work it’s done yeah.

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Jason Mefford: but also in that prioritizing is important.

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Jason Mefford: In setting and setting the specific deadlines right like I said I mean I when I said end of the month i’m thinking Friday he’s thinking no end of the month is Sunday, I don’t wanna I don’t care i’m not gonna do anything till Monday anyway right.

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Jason Mefford: yeah yeah so that’s that probably all works out to so so let’s go back to this hard to focus because, again, this is, this is something.

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Jason Mefford: You know, because i’ve done a lot of work.

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Jason Mefford: In psychology and and try to help share this with people too, but I know that that one of the things that is very hard you talk, you talked earlier about getting into the flow.

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Dawn Vogel: mm hmm.

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Jason Mefford: And, and we do end up doing that, in fact, you know that’s why things like multitasking.

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Jason Mefford: can be so damaging for us because it’s interesting there’s actually been a lot of scientific research that’s been done on this.

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Jason Mefford: And, and what they’ll do is they’ll give somebody an IQ test right.

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Jason Mefford: And then they’ll put them through these experiments right, and so the experiments are usually having them multitask interrupting doing all these kinds of things in this short period of time and then at the end of that they would give them another IQ.

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test.

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Jason Mefford: Not a surprise IQ is go down right, so I like to say multitasking makes you stupid.

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Jason Mefford: Because because it actually lowers our cognitive abilities were not able to perform as well, the more that we get interrupted right so.

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Jason Mefford: So how how have you dealt with you know some of this kind of stuff because again getting interrupted like that that does lead us to you know being irritable angry.

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Jason Mefford: Other stuff like that, where those emotions anytime that we’re hungry angry lonely or tired if we’re any of those things hungry angry lonely or tired.

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Jason Mefford: When some stressor or trigger happens, we tend to react emotionally in a not so good way right, I think you know before we were talking about the voice levels being elevated.

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Jason Mefford: Yes, not that i’ve ever experienced.

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Jason Mefford: So, but, but you know how do you how do you kind of cope with with that and then, and again I mean kind of seemingly these we already have enough as leaders.

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Jason Mefford: Anyway, in our job, but then, when you compound everything with you know your husband your son to school at the everything else, I mean, how do you kind of work through or deal with that.

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Dawn Vogel: um I had to learn what my own triggers were and listen and not only learn what they work, as in the pandemic, I would say there’s there are different ones.

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Dawn Vogel: That maybe you didn’t notice that weren’t that weren’t there before like maybe before I could handle.

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Dawn Vogel: asking my son to brush his teeth two times and then maybe you know, on a certain day because of everything else you know after one time, I would lose it so it’s just kind of recognizing what you know what those triggers are.

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Dawn Vogel: And then you know, taking a breath so like if I if I know like i’ve had a long a long day at work.

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Dawn Vogel: I know I need to have some you know 510 minutes, whatever it is, of meat time just to decompress you know decompress before I talked to my son or husband about you know things that we need to do that evening you know what we need to do as a family as a family.

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Dawn Vogel: And that can be hard, I think that that’s been difficult during the pandemic because because all the boundaries and compartments are gone because everybody’s doing everything from one place, excuse me, so that was that was definitely an adjustment to figure out how to.

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Dawn Vogel: recognize it sooner and then take it just take a timeout.

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Jason Mefford: I think that’s you know you two are two of the phrases that you just use there that I love is the timeout.

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Jason Mefford: and breathe right because because, again, you know I mean this is it it’s a classic parenting skill right as you put your kid in timeout.

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Jason Mefford: If they’re not acting or behaving in a way that we want them to right, so we, we can have separate them not to isolate them or anything but.

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Jason Mefford: You know just to let them kind of get their emotions in check right so it’s it’s I love that idea, though, of kind of putting ourself in timeout right.

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Jason Mefford: yeah and that and that it’s Okay, you know, like if if if we’re talking and all of a sudden, I I start to recognize her feel that i’m getting triggered.

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Jason Mefford: We can continue to talk, but if we do that voices might get elevated I might say something that I regret later and so it’s better for us at that point for me to say you know what don just a minute.

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Jason Mefford: I need I need five minutes and then let’s pick up this discussion i’m going to put myself in a timeout right take that time go away have that meantime do whatever you need to to kind of you know.

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Jason Mefford: Balance back down what needs to be done and the other one you know with breathing is you know yeah sometimes we can’t say I need a five minute timeout but breathing in another little trick that I love is.

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Jason Mefford: The seven seconds right, and so you probably have heard me say this before right where usually, when we get triggered our subconscious brain actually recognizes it.

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Jason Mefford: seven seconds before our conscious mind actually picks it up and so something as simple as breathing for 10 seconds or pausing in the conversation.

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Jason Mefford: For 10 seconds can allow us to adjust and again i’m people that are listening are probably thinking we’re crazy talking about this, but you know just try it right try breathing just stop and take deep breaths for a minute or a minute and a half.

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Jason Mefford: And you will be surprised the difference that you feel right and and again this is something that one of the techniques is called tactical breathing, why is it called tactical breathing.

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Because they teach it to military.

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Jason Mefford: Seal, you know, like navy seals special operations military people because they get themselves in those times when they’re freaking out i’m sure if you know if you’re stuck stranded somewhere and people are shooting at you you’re going to be freaking out.

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Dawn Vogel: I would mean.

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Jason Mefford: It would be.

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Jason Mefford: So it’s it’s a simple technique of even that you can do in 90 seconds to help you kind of focus ground yourself again and then be able to come back so sounds like that’s been something that has been very helpful for you.

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Dawn Vogel: It has, and if you vocalize it people understand both at home and at work if I say I need five minutes people figured out what that means.

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Jason Mefford: And you don’t say why right right in.

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Dawn Vogel: You know, even in a zoom meeting if i’m you know zooming with my team or with my boss.

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Dawn Vogel: it’s important to say like I just need it i’m just i’m thinking about that for a minute our spawn in a minute or can we can I.

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Dawn Vogel: Think about that one for a minute and i’ll call you back you know, like in a work setting, but like at home at home, it works too, and the amazing part is once one person does it.

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Dawn Vogel: In people other people figure out the benefits of it, they start doing it too, and before you know it everybody’s being respectful of everybody else’s you know you know what’s going on, and it really stops a situation from escalating.

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Jason Mefford: Well, I think what you just kind of explained there, too, is kind of one of the leadership concepts that I want to kind of beat into people.

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Jason Mefford: To is, if you want to change the world, you know how you do it, you change yourself and use us start modeling the behavior that you want other people to follow.

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Jason Mefford: So in that instance right, you know again it’s like you know you can you can probably tell somebody starting to get triggered and it’s like Oh, I need I need to put my husband in the timeout right, I know my wife said that sexual.

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Jason Mefford: right but but we can’t say hey you need to go take a timeout right, because if you do that, then that’s kind of forcing the person there’s resentment there’s.

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Dawn Vogel: there’s resistance.

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Jason Mefford: At that point right, but you know if again if we’re the leader or we’re in the situation if we if we see ourselves starting to get triggered or if we see the other person to start to get triggered we’ll just put yourself in a.

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Dawn Vogel: Time yeah.

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Jason Mefford: Right, even if we don’t need it, if we see that they need it then ask for that vocalize it communicate it, because when you do, then all of a sudden now you’re also modeling that behavior.

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Jason Mefford: That you want them to do they see it’s okay you’re doing it as the leader, so it must be okay, so the next time, maybe when they feel triggered it’s Okay, for them to say hey I just need five minutes or I need to think about this for an hour, let me get back to you.

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Jason Mefford: yeah right wow.

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Jason Mefford: Good stuff.

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Dawn Vogel: It is.

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Jason Mefford: I mean it’s it’s um.

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Jason Mefford: You know this whole time I know I know for a lot of people it’s been really hard but it’s also you know for people like you.

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Jason Mefford: This has actually been a great opportunity, you know, for you to communicate better have the boundaries, some of these things that we should have had beforehand anyway, but we didn’t because we weren’t kind of forced into that situation right yeah good stuff.

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Dawn Vogel: And I think for the younger people for all the children of various ages that are going through this, I know, and I talked to my son’s teachers, a lot of office to.

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Dawn Vogel: there’s this constant worry of oh they’re going to be a year behind from an academic perspective and I, and I always say you know what may or may not be the case.

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Dawn Vogel: Humans are resilient and they can.

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Dawn Vogel: catch up, so we won’t you know we won’t know the impact of that until much, much further down the road but they’re learning other very valuable lessons at an earlier age.

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Dawn Vogel: Like you know, hopefully, my son is seeing how we communicate at home and handle the stress and anxiety and my hope is that.

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Dawn Vogel: When he is an adult he will have these.

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Dawn Vogel: tools and be able to process them without even thinking about it because you’ve learned how to do it at such a young age.

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Jason Mefford: Well yeah I mean because that that is it’s a blessing that you’re giving your your son, some of these skills that we need as adults.

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Jason Mefford: Yes, a lot of us as adults are trying to learn the lessons.

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Jason Mefford: Right, yes, because we’re forced to but, like you said, I mean and that’s that’s where it is really with anything for us to really learn, we have to practice it to exercise.

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Jason Mefford: And, and the more that we do that, the more unconscious those things become right is that unconscious competence.

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Dawn Vogel: yeah.

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Jason Mefford: That we aspire to that we all of a sudden just start doing things and we don’t even recognize we’re doing it because they become habits.

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Jason Mefford: Yes, and that’s just just how we actually do that so yeah i’m i’m excited to see how this younger generation is going to turn out because I, I agree with you, I think these are actually.

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Jason Mefford: Good lesson for younger children to learn that will end up making them better adults as well.

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Dawn Vogel: I think so.

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Jason Mefford: Well, this has been a great discussion I guess you know before before we kind of wrap up here, I just wanted to see to you know.

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Jason Mefford: Are there any other things that you’ve kind of thought about that you’d like to share with people that you found helpful or that you, you think that that would be good, you know, for them to hear that we haven’t already talked about.

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Dawn Vogel: I think the main thing is just use your resources like people you know it’s it’s okay to ask for help it’s Okay, you know i’m not a teacher, I can ask my son’s teachers, how do I get him to do his homework, without having to yell at him, you know all night I can ask my.

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Dawn Vogel: tell my boss, I need help, because I need to rearrange my schedule to same thing with my my team.

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Dawn Vogel: i’m not going to be available between xyz it’s Okay, for you to to do the same thing as long as you communicate it I think that’s really the another.

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Dawn Vogel: Learning point is is just ask everybody, you may not think that you are in the same boat as everybody else, but you are at least maybe not your neighbor but there’s somebody you can find somebody who’s in the same boat.

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Jason Mefford: Well, and that’s what i’m hoping, you know, everybody who’s listening now realizes.

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Jason Mefford: Because again a lot of times we feel isolated we feel alone we don’t feel like everybody else is in the same boat, that we are, and so we feel silly we feel weak, we feel, whatever right that, oh no, you know I can’t ask for help, because that would mean that i’m weak.

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Jason Mefford: and other thing that I learned a long time ago that I really believe is.

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Jason Mefford: It takes more courage to ask for change, then, and to actually make the change than it does to just continue doing what you’ve been doing.

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Jason Mefford: Yes, because it ends up leading to that anxiety it gets to a point of a lot of times burnout maybe depression, other things like that, and so it’s okay to ask for help.

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Jason Mefford: I think it’s a huge thing.

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Jason Mefford: You know, for people to realize we don’t have to do this, all by ourselves there’s other people in the same situation there’s other people who want to help and and all we have to do is is reach out and find some of those other other alternatives.

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Dawn Vogel: Yes, very.

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Jason Mefford: Good stuff good stuff done, I really appreciate you taking time and sharing and being open and honest with people of what what you’ve kind of gone through yourself, because you know, again, I know that people are going to find this helpful.

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Jason Mefford: As well as we all get through this together, yes right we’re gonna get through this together, because humans are resilient and and we find we find a way to adapt.

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Jason Mefford: Yes, and to be flexible and to work through whatever you know this life ends up throwing at us.

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agreed.

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Jason Mefford: Well, thanks don really appreciate you like, I said and just you know.

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Jason Mefford: Wishing wishing you the best of success is again we move through and we don’t know what the future is going to hold, but obviously you’ve learned some things this last year that are going to help make you much more adaptable and flexible, regardless of what life throws your way.

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Dawn Vogel: Thanks Jason I appreciate it.

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Thanks.

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