Stop Resistance to Change #1

If you are like most, you may feel like it can be difficult to make certain changes in your life. Now granted these could be due to reasons such as being stubborn or just plain lazy, but what other reasons are there for not changing certain habits?

Lets dive into these reasons for resisting change, and lets uncover how we can overcome these hinderances to improve our own lives!

Listen in at: https://www.jasonmefford.com/fireandearth144

Transcript

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Jason Mefford: Welcome to another episode of the fire and earth podcast i’m your co host Jason medford.

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Kathy Gruver: And I am Kathy gruver and we are so excited to be back with you we’re going to talk today about something that we have all faced we’ve all had this issue it’s about resistance to change.

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Jason Mefford: I don’t know Kathy I don’t ever have that.

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Kathy Gruver: Really oh you’re just so laid back and easygoing you just yeah Jane Jane seymour change yeah.

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Kathy Gruver: yeah and I believe you.

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Jason Mefford: You don’t believe me yeah well Okay, I guess, if i’m honest with myself I probably am a little resistant to change because it’s part of human nature right.

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Kathy Gruver: We all are we’re hardwired to be.

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Kathy Gruver: hesitant of things that are the unknown, I mean that’s just that’s the way we’re brains our brains pick safety over happiness so it’s going to look at different things, or change as a threat, so it’s just sort of natural.

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Kathy Gruver: And there are ways that we as humans throw some more cognitive stuff into that and then there’s other ways that we can allow change to come a little easier so we’re going to talk about that today.

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Jason Mefford: yeah because you’re right there’s there’s actually it’s both conscious and excuse me, conscious and subconscious.

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Jason Mefford: reasons why we resist change right.

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Jason Mefford: yeah I know we’ve talked a lot about the subconscious brain before and again, one of the one of the stats numbers that just still is crazy to me, but we we see or subconsciously we pick up on three times as much danger as we.

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Jason Mefford: As we do positive right so.

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Jason Mefford: They already are subconscious is is kicking us right of not wanting to change, but like you said, our conscious we we also throw some conscious things in there to.

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Jason Mefford: make it hard for us to change so let’s let’s talk about, because I know this is the topic that you’re really interested in given a.

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Jason Mefford: New speech on it now.

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Kathy Gruver: yeah and that’s happening so I mean what who knows when this layer but it’ll happen by now and it’ll have been.

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Jason Mefford: brilliant it’ll be awesome.

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Kathy Gruver: yeah well and I did come up with a couple reasons, so let me just go through these reasons, and then we can talk about these So the first one is it’s just our brain.

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Kathy Gruver: like this is just what our brain does you know and it’s interesting that you have the Stat of three times we pick up you know, three times dangerous we do positive.

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Kathy Gruver: We are hard wired to hear negatively balanced words quicker, so if you’re crossing the street and ice cream no you’re going to hear that faster than if I said nice shoes your brain is like.

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Kathy Gruver: Because it’s looking for danger, so in a way we are really just hardwired to be a little resistant to change the other one is fear.

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Kathy Gruver: Fear of failure, fear of success, fear of the unknown fear of judgement all that stuff um one is just plain stubbornness sometimes we’re just now i’ve said I wouldn’t do it and i’m not gonna do it tomorrow.

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Jason Mefford: Now I never do that.

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Jason Mefford: Of course you don’t I don’t either I am not stubborn at all.

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Kathy Gruver: And the other one is secondary game, you know, sometimes we are rewarded for staying stuck.

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Kathy Gruver: Sometimes it’s just habit and I have a very funny story about that sometimes it’s outside forces so we’re being influenced by other people, and sometimes we’re just plain lazy.

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Kathy Gruver: To the change will be the easiest thing in the world and we’re just not doing it because we’re like man i’ll do it some other time, so those are kind of the reasons I came up with so which one of those do you want to tackle first.

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Jason Mefford: So you got the list in front of you let’s just whichever one you want to go through first let’s just go through we’ll talk a little bit about each one of them and but.

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Jason Mefford: i’m do to kind of overcome.

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Kathy Gruver: yeah so we talked a little bit about our brain, this is kind of hard to overcome, because we are wired for that, and when we started to actually form societies and form villages, you can imagine, you know you know the 15 to 20 people in your village if somebody.

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Kathy Gruver: You know, suddenly someone comes in, from another village and maybe they look different than you are they sound different than you, and they have different food choices than you.

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Kathy Gruver: That would be incredibly threatening to the group, so our brain again is just going to see that change as a threat and that’s kind of a hard one to get over because it’s so primitive for us so.

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Kathy Gruver: How do we help change that is it just exposure is it programming, what do you think on that one.

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Jason Mefford: Well it’s funny because, as you, as you say that this is one to where again it’s it’s subconscious because it’s built into us right, I mean through millions of years of living as humans we’ve been doing this, but but also there is some consciousness to it to.

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Jason Mefford: You know, because I know as a parent, you know we have that stranger danger.

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Jason Mefford: right kind of a kind of an idea so we’re also kind of programming it consciously and subconsciously and we’re kids as well.

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Jason Mefford: Right oh.

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Jason Mefford: Absolutely, but I think and so tell me if i’m wrong, but I think this is something that we can reprogram right and we’ve we’ve talked a lot about some of the different ways that we can do it, I mean you do it all all day, every day, is a hipaa test with people.

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Jason Mefford: that there are some ways for us to actually you know reprogram that.

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Kathy Gruver: Right absolutely that’s so interesting I remember watching for family, friends and they had younger children we took them down to the beach.

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Kathy Gruver: And they were you know their kids they’re walking by the water and they’re splashing in that low part of the water and a wave came the way was like this big and the parents will go.

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Kathy Gruver: And they ran and grabbed the kid you would have thought, a shark was jumping at them and I watched these parents instill this fear.

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Kathy Gruver: This hesitancy this not resistance to change, I mean like zero I mean there were so risk averse they they pampered these kids there were so they created terrified children, and now I know these kids as adults and they’re pretty much terrified.

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Kathy Gruver: yeah it’s like you can watch that grow and people so stepping outside of that making different choices, especially as parent is definitely going to help, but what about us, what about us middle aged people that are already programmed for this.

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Kathy Gruver: it’s got to be tough to break out of these patterns and one thing that hypnosis, of course, is a great choice there’s also something called cognitive restructuring.

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Kathy Gruver: Where it’s you know, a chart you sit down you look at when, if I had this experience before what were the outcomes, what do I know.

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Kathy Gruver: You know what are other choices, I can make and that’s one of those things it’s really phenomenal tool, a lot of psychologists use this it’s a little bit in nlp but not as much.

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Kathy Gruver: And you know it’s about reprogramming your brain and giving you the tools, the tool to say oh this doesn’t have to end this way, there are other choices, I can make other steps, I can take.

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Kathy Gruver: And you can start to make an unknown and as soon as you make an unknown then it’s not a scary because your brain is going to go towards that thing it knows, so it just becomes this loop of you have to make it a known thing for yourself.

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Jason Mefford: Well that’s why sometimes you know for people that have gone through coaching as well.

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Jason Mefford: Right there’s there’s often one of the questions that will come up is has there ever been a time before.

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Jason Mefford: yep when.

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Jason Mefford: way right whatever it is right and so that’s that’s helping you go through some of that conscious reframing of.

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Jason Mefford: yep i’ll hold it, you know yeah laughs i’ve been in the ocean when there’s been a wave before has that little tiny wave that’s only six inches tall has it has it hurt me in the past.

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Jason Mefford: yeah no it hasn’t heard me in the past, so if it hasn’t hurt me in the past, why do I think it’s going to hurt me now.

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Kathy Gruver: Right yeah or you can take it to the full end of Okay, what if it does hurt me okay it knocks me down i’m at two feet of water.

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Kathy Gruver: i’m probably going to be okay.

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Kathy Gruver: yeah and it’s you know, we do have these sort of irrational fears and I remember after being audited by the irs, which was a terrifying experience it was six months of absolute hell.

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Kathy Gruver: i’m still here, I live to tell the tale, you know so and I remember, I wrote an article for other massage therapists to help them through this, because then it made it less scary for them, so I was happy to get to share that experience.

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Kathy Gruver: But the following year I do my taxes and I filed them and I was actually going to get a refund my God, I know it was like $12 but I was.

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Kathy Gruver: gonna get.

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Jason Mefford: It done the tax, we had done them so conservatively so that even if they would want to look at them again, it would actually come out in my favor so I knew this.

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Kathy Gruver: And i’m waiting for you know, the thing waiting for my check with my checklist right check and I called my tax guide i’m like hey you know i’m still waiting, and he goes oh wow you really should have had it by now.

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Kathy Gruver: Go to this thing on the irs site, it was you know find my refund or whatever it was this was years ago, and so I gotta find my refund and all my stuff and it says delayed and I went.

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Kathy Gruver: What is delayed me oh my God, are they I didn’t know until I email my guy and I said it says the lady what is delayed mean it’s delayed bad.

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Kathy Gruver: And he goes no dot dot, but I would call on Monday i’m like oh my God i’m getting out of it again and then and I started to think okay calm down.

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Kathy Gruver: What do you know to be true you filed a phenomenal tax return it is perfect, even if they want to look at it, you specifically did it so it would come out in your favor and the only word, you know.

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Kathy Gruver: is delayed that’s the only word, you know delayed could simply mean there’s millions of people filing taxes right now it’s simply delayed so Monday comes I don’t call, because who i’m going to talk to Tuesday, Wednesday Wednesday, I get the check.

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Kathy Gruver: It was simply delayed, you know and it’s like we look at that and we have this gigantic reactivity to it because of these past experiences.

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Kathy Gruver: And it’s like we can reprogram that we can reframe that and that’s why I love asking the question, what do I know to be true All I know is it’s delayed until I get a letter that says otherwise I just have to trust that it’s delayed.

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Kathy Gruver: yeah.

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Jason Mefford: yeah it’s that, meaning that you were putting on that particular word.

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Jason Mefford: Based on your previous experiences, but again had nothing to do with it and I love the idea to have because i’ve heard this from a few people, you know as well as well what’s the worst that can happen.

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Jason Mefford: And again, usually that’s never going to be i’m going to die.

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Jason Mefford: Right.

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Kathy Gruver: And we feel that way, though.

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Jason Mefford: yeah we do feel that way, and our subconscious is making us feel like be careful, you know again because we think it’s a lion tear you know bear tiger or something like that coming to eat us yeah but, but most of the things that we experience in life will not kill us.

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Jason Mefford: Right, and so one of the one of the things that one of my coaches says that I really love is everything always has been, is now and will be just fine.

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Kathy Gruver: yeah I love it well, and to that point when I got when I started getting into the audit and I was having this complete like I was up in the middle of the night every night going.

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Kathy Gruver: Like I wake from dead slips this was a terrifying experience and I part of it now, and looking back at it was that idea of getting in trouble.

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Kathy Gruver: which we were terrified of as a kid right you like you didn’t want to the principal’s office.

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Kathy Gruver: The teacher the priest whatever you didn’t want to get in trouble, and I think that’s part of what it was.

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Kathy Gruver: Is I was taught to be such a good girl and follow all the rules, and you know what am I doing wrong and what they yell at me and what do I get grounded, you know, and my dad’s girlfriend said Kathy what is the worst thing that’s going to happen.

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Kathy Gruver: And I said i’ll owe them money and she goes Okay, do you have the money to pay them and I said I don’t know it depends on how much, and she goes well you know what they do, if you don’t have enough money to pay them they put you on a payment plan.

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Kathy Gruver: And you pay them.

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Kathy Gruver: She said that’ll be inconvenient, and you don’t want to give them more money, she said, but that’s the worst things that are going to throw you in jail you’re not laundering money.

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Kathy Gruver: there’s no debtors prison they’re not going to put you in the square and throw fruit at you.

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Kathy Gruver: you’re going to owe them money you’re going to write them a check and I was like Oh, that seems so much less scary you know, because our minds, they do these things it’s part of our brain cool so yeah that’s a great one with.

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Kathy Gruver: With our brain and talking about that so cool so how about we just playing stubborn now I started wasn’t gonna do it i’m not going to do that thing.

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Jason Mefford: stubborn stubborn stubborn well you know, and I know for myself again from self.

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Jason Mefford: from some introspection right that is one thing that I tend to go to.

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Jason Mefford: offer is if it is if even if I know right that it’s in my best interest if I feel like i’m getting pressured or have to do it.

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Jason Mefford: Sometimes I will put in put in my heels right i’ll get my heels in and part of that is, you know as i’ve.

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Jason Mefford: tried to think about it, too, it goes goes back to.

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Jason Mefford: One of my highest values is freedom, and so it feels like you know that if i’m being forced to do something that i’m not really free so again that’s one of those where I have you know done some cognitive restructure as well to say no it’s still my choice.

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Kathy Gruver: yeah.

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Jason Mefford: To do that, or not right, and so I can allow myself to choose that doesn’t take away my freedom.

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Jason Mefford: Right and it’s in, especially when it’s.

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Jason Mefford: You know, again, as you start thinking through it it’s like I know this is, in my my best self interest So why am I not doing it oh it’s just because i’m being stubborn okay well i’m going to allow myself to choose what’s in my best interest.

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Kathy Gruver: yeah.

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Jason Mefford: And then i’m going to move forward.

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Kathy Gruver: Right and to me the big part of this is.

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Kathy Gruver: sort of like being viewed as a hypocrite so it’s like when I moved to Los Angeles, and so many of the adults were like what are you going to do if the acting thing doesn’t work out.

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Kathy Gruver: And I remember this very like rebellious arrogant part of me going What do you mean it’s not going to work of course it’s going to work out it’s going to be exactly this.

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Kathy Gruver: And I set it up, I told everybody, I was going to go to you know pursue this acting thing, and this is what was going to happen, it was going to work and I was gonna have this career and then, when it didn’t and I went.

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Kathy Gruver: Oh shit I want to quit like I don’t want to do this anymore.

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Kathy Gruver: My first thought was well what’s what’s everybody gonna think you know they told me, I was going to fail, and now I did if I make a different choice it’s going to look like i’m a failure and so that was a huge part of.

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Kathy Gruver: me staying in that space, a little bit longer because I said I was going to do it and now i’m changing my mind and that’s you know, first of all, no one cared and, second, of all.

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Kathy Gruver: My neighbor becomes gonna think i’m a failure, whatever you know, but I think that gets in our head of you know why I said I was going to do this thing.

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Kathy Gruver: And even if you find out, you have a better choice or a different choice there’s still a part of you going in but I said it so.

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Kathy Gruver: If I go back on that now how am I going to be viewed kind of thing, so I think that’s part of it, too, and it is really just releasing that that preconceived notion of what are people gonna think.

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Kathy Gruver: and making your best choice for you in that moment it’s Okay, for us to change our minds it’s Okay, for us to make a different choice, and we have to.

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Kathy Gruver: reassure ourselves of that.

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Jason Mefford: Well, I think that’s important because, because where I was going to kind of go with it too is you know, like you said, there is just what you said there’s that fear of.

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Jason Mefford: You know what what’s everybody else going to think right so again that goes back to that abandonment feelings that we have and.

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Jason Mefford: That scares the shit out of us right.

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Jason Mefford: yep but, but just just as probably great of a factor is that and I see this from so many people is they’re afraid that once they’ve said something they’re never allowed to make a different choice.

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Jason Mefford: Right right, because if I if I now make a different choice now somehow i’m not an ethical person or whatever right.

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Jason Mefford: Right and so again it’s you know we’ve talked about relationships other things for this where this goes on right, I mean both you and I have.

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Jason Mefford: been divorced right we both we both got married to people, we had the best intentions and we’re choosing at that time that this is what we wanted, and our plan and intention was it was going to last for the rest of our life.

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Kathy Gruver: uh huh.

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Jason Mefford: Well, at some point things changed we changed our partners changed and it’s okay right for us to make a different choice.

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Kathy Gruver: yeah yeah.

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Jason Mefford: it’s okay there’s nothing wrong it doesn’t know you’re not ethical.

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Jason Mefford: It just means.

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Jason Mefford: You know there’s different choices that you want to make now that are going to serve you.

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Jason Mefford: And just because you use say something one time, does it mean that you have to do it and you can I never deviate from it for the rest of your life.

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Kathy Gruver: Or else we’d still be sitting on our parents lap and we’d still be you know in our first.

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Kathy Gruver: house or apartment and we’d still be you know it’s like we change all the time and that’s what’s so fascinating is we accept some parts of change and.

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Kathy Gruver: Not other parts of change and that’s just to me, this is why I started working on this talk, because to me it’s so fascinating and the different reasons, is, I really sat with that and came up with why aren’t we changing.

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Kathy Gruver: You know, and the other one, the one that kind of goes with the stubbornness to me is habit.

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Kathy Gruver: I was just how we’ve always done it, you know i’ve had so many clients complain about their doctor I don’t like this guy he sucks and he did that well why don’t you switch doctors i’ve had him for years.

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Kathy Gruver: Well, that doesn’t mean he’s good you know or housekeepers terrible she just talks she doesn’t really clean anything I think she’s stealing from me why don’t you get rid of her yeah she’s been in the family for generations well.

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Jason Mefford: it’s okay to make a new choice it’s okay to make a new choice, if you feel bad about letting her go because she’s now at and she needs you’re $17 an hour or whatever parent that’s one thing is just to just.

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Kathy Gruver: Keep something going because that’s the way you’ve always done it so here’s my funny story so.

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Kathy Gruver: I drink a lot of ice tea, as all of you have noticed, I go through too many of these, I think, and so, for the longest time.

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Kathy Gruver: When I was with my X, we would buy jugs of water and when the water was gone I would brew the tea, and I would pour it into the gallon jug and put it in the fridge that’s just what I did so when he and I split.

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Kathy Gruver: I brought all health and jugs with me right, and eventually they get dirty and then the tea tastes crappy and you can’t clean it and I am not one to go by jugs of water.

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Kathy Gruver: So I literally one day text them and i’m like do you have any empty water jugs.

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Kathy Gruver: Okay, this is ridiculous i’m a grown woman Why am I doing this, so I literally drove across town to pick up empty water jugs to put my iced tea in one day i’m walking through CVs and I see these lovely pictures and I go yeah.

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Kathy Gruver: There were seven bucks keep walking and now i’m trying to pour from a pan at the tea everywhere, they taste terrible, and so one day I walk back through CVs i’m looking out i’m just gonna i’m just gonna pull the trigger on this and I bought one jug.

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Kathy Gruver: Not to one jug for seven bucks we’re one, you know very nice picture is red matches the kitchen so now i’ve got one water jug that i’m still trying to pour it into and one very nice picture, with a very wide mouth, where I just go bloop.

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Kathy Gruver: It took me weeks to go back to sleep, yes, even though i’m in there all the time to buy another frickin job.

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Kathy Gruver: by another picture, it took me months of inconvenience of literally texting him and going, could I get a water jug it was absolutely ridiculous and that’s actually kind of what sparked me doing this entire workshop was why would I, why do they not just my pictures i’ve got $14.

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Kathy Gruver: i’m in CVs all the time i’m in bed bath and beyond all the time, but for some reason, because I had always done it that way.

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Kathy Gruver: I just kept doing it and it struck me is absolutely a name that I can take this Baker.

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Kathy Gruver: crazy debate.

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Jason Mefford: The funny ironic thing about it too right is is, as you were talking, you know, one of the problems will call them, you know that you had was.

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Jason Mefford: After a while you can’t really clean them right, you can put water in it and shake them up and you can’t you can’t really wash it.

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Jason Mefford: And so the pitcher option actually you know fulfills or gets rid of that problem too right, but again it’s Well, this is the way i’ve always done it, so this is the way that I have to keep doing it, and again I mean that’s this is normal in in so much of our life, where we get resistant.

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Jason Mefford: Because well it’s it’s the way we’ve always done it, so why wouldn’t we always do that.

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Kathy Gruver: Right yeah and and you know that’s just a matter of noticing that that’s how asking yourself why the five Wise, why do we do this, and is it that the NSA national speakers association always jokes about the the ham story Are you familiar with the.

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Jason Mefford: Ziegler yeah.

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Kathy Gruver: yeah.

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Kathy Gruver: Oh, is that his yeah about you know.

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Kathy Gruver: They would cut off the ends of the ham and stick it in the pan.

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Kathy Gruver: And the daughter goes, why do we do it that way, well, I don’t know ask your mother.

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Kathy Gruver: Well, I don’t know that’s how we’ve always done, it will ask your grandma okay well i’ll ask your great hands and it turns out, the very first time they made it a hand was too big for the pan, and so they had to cut the ends off to have it fit.

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Kathy Gruver: And they just thought that was some family tradition, not ever questioning, why do we do that, so this is where I love the asking why.

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Kathy Gruver: Sometimes there’s no good reason why you’re doing this, I still don’t know why I was so resistant to get a frickin pitcher and then, at the same time I got two pitchers that lovely the red they match the kitchen.

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Jason Mefford: And you don’t have to keep calling your ax two to get to get more bottles.

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Kathy Gruver: have been yesterday, we can I borrow the staple gun it’s like.

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Kathy Gruver: let’s shift is still there, so.

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Jason Mefford: Like I just got the I think you can afford a staple gun too so just fine.

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Kathy Gruver: I needed to staple one thing i’m not buying a whole staple guns ridiculous.

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Kathy Gruver: This is where i’m just gonna be separate on that.

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Kathy Gruver: Okay okay.

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Kathy Gruver: So yeah leaving stubbornness because i’m feeling attacked now.

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Kathy Gruver: Sometimes they’re you know, sometimes there was secondary game.

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Kathy Gruver: There is a huge amount of.

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Kathy Gruver: Positive positive feedback that you can get from staying stuck and I see a lot of my clients staying in situations or.

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Kathy Gruver: Not wanting to change because it’s not only comfortable where they are, but there’s some sort of benefit to being that way, whether it’s staying in pain.

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Kathy Gruver: or staying needy or staying overweight or staying whatever it is they find that they are getting rewarded very subconsciously, of course, for being in that not great healthy state know unhealthy state so thoughts on secondary game.

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Jason Mefford: Well yeah because the first time that I had heard this you know, again, I heard it from one of the coaches, that I had many years ago, it will you know was you know will what.

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Jason Mefford: What do you expect to gain or what are you gaining by not changing.

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Jason Mefford: Right and again it’s like i’d never i’d never really thought of it.

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Jason Mefford: That way, or even realize that there could be something like that right, but but but, again, so if people haven’t heard of it they’re usually as if you’re resistant to change there usually is a secondary gain.

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Jason Mefford: To it right like like let’s again let’s just we’ll just use a little example from a relationship okay so so let’s say you know again your partner says something to you that’s hurtful.

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Jason Mefford: And instead of standing up for yourself saying what you really believe or what you think you, you know tend to go back into whatever the old pattern was of maybe accepting it.

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Jason Mefford: Getting it, you know getting hit on the chin, if you will, from that and so.

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Jason Mefford: A lot of times and when people look at that they’re like Why do I keep doing that, why do I keep letting this person emotionally or verbally abused me I don’t like it, and so you know, again, as you dig into it it’s like there’s some secondary gain that you get by doing that.

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Jason Mefford: And a lot of times in that situation because i’ve seen this play out with a lot of different people that exact situation.

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Jason Mefford: And, most of the time, the secondary gain when you start peeling it back is well i’m afraid that i’m going to make them mad and if I make them mad and they may no longer want to be with me.

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Jason Mefford: And if they no longer want to be with me, then, I might get divorced and i’m a stay at home mom and so, if I get divorced, then how am I going to feed my kids right so so there’s a lot of these other secondary gains that people don’t consciously realize are there.

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Jason Mefford: That holding them back.

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Kathy Gruver: yeah yeah I have a slightly different example which I love that that’s so true, I mean it’s like people stay in relationships, all the time they.

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Kathy Gruver: put up the things that a lot of others go, why are you putting up with that there’s they’re getting some sort of benefit from it, even if it’s this way back childhood thing where they think they deserve to be treated like that.

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Kathy Gruver: that’s even tapping into some sort of psychological benefit for them, when I was doing more massage I had a client who she had a horrible back, I mean it was just it was just a mess and her back went out.

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Kathy Gruver: When you’re back would go out she could do nothing for about two weeks, other than sit on the couch hold the cat play games take her pain meds that was her existence for about two weeks, and after the fifth or sixth time.

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Kathy Gruver: I was talking to her on the phone I said how are you feeling isn’t there something you could do about this, and she goes yeah i’m exploring those things to do, but quite frankly it’s actually kind of Nice when my back goes out because then my husband does all the cleaning.

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Jason Mefford: ding ding ding secondary game.

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Kathy Gruver: And I went interesting now she said it.

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Kathy Gruver: And i’m thinking on some very subconscious level if she’s happy when her back goes out because she gets to relax Joseph to go to work.

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Kathy Gruver: Her husband does all the cleaning I think there’s so many other choices, I mean if it’s just about let’s just distill it down to the cleaning hire a cleaning service.

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Kathy Gruver: You know, sit your husband now and go hey i’d like more help around the House as opposed to waiting for your back to go out and then enjoying the fact that he’s vacuuming and you’re sitting on the couch with your.

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Kathy Gruver: Your payments and the cat you know there’s there’s there’s kind of stuff around that from a communication standpoint from a values and knowing what you need from somebody else standpoint, rather than waiting for your back to go out in such a debilitating way you can’t get off the couch.

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Jason Mefford: yeah that’s perfect example because she’s she’s willing to go through the physical pain.

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Jason Mefford: To get the secondary gain that her husband cleaning the House.

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Jason Mefford: yep yep yeah.

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Kathy Gruver: yep cool and i’m thinking this work of approaching the end of the time, why don’t we pick up next time and talk about the other reasons.

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Jason Mefford: I think we can do that make.

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Jason Mefford: People have to come back and listen next week.

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yeah.

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Kathy Gruver: yeah let’s look at let’s do that, so what did we talk about we talked about.

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Kathy Gruver: Which ones, did we do we talked about talking about our brain, we talked about being just plain stubborn.

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Kathy Gruver: We talked about habits and we talked about some secondary game, so if you’re finding any of these things affect you in your life and you’re having trouble changing really just sit down with yourself and ask those questions asked why.

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Kathy Gruver: You are doing that yeah what’s what’s behind it figure out which one of those reasons and take some steps to bring change back into your life in a safe and healthy way.

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Jason Mefford: perfect and you’ll have to tune in to the next episode, for the rest of the story is Paul Harvey.

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Kathy Gruver: would say, on page 32.

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Jason Mefford: In those choose your own adventure books right.

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Kathy Gruver: Oh, you remember those.

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Jason Mefford: Oh, I love those books.

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Kathy Gruver: yeah I do well, hopefully you’ll choose your next adventure with us in the meantime i’m Kathy Gruber, I can be reached at Kathy group COM.

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Jason Mefford: i’m Jason effort, I can be reached at Jason method calm so go out don’t resist change this week use some of these little techniques that we talked about and we’ll catch you on the next episode of the fire and earth podcast see ya.

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yeah.

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