Fire & Earth Podcast E57: Building Rapport with Others and Yourself with Mike Mandel

Real connection with another human being comes from being in rapport. You may have heard the term before, but in this episode we dive deep into how to be in rapport with others and with yourself … something you may not have heard about before. Learn how pyscho-dynamic loops can improve your communication and connection with others.

We are joined by Mike Mandel again to go deep and provide you with some practical tools you can use today.

Mike Mandel single handedly reinvented the persona of the stage hypnotist, rescuing it from its tacky beginnings and giving it rock star appeal. Widely regarded as the world’s greatest hypnotist, Mike Mandel has 18 nominations and 6 awards for excellence in entertainment. In June 2000 he was presented with the COCA Hall of Fame Award, previously won by Sarah McLaughlin, the Tragically Hip and Jim Carrey.

Mike is a qualified trainer of neurolinguistic programming (NLP) and is affiliated with NLPWorks, who offer Canada’s most complete NLP training. He teaches advanced Ericksonian hypnosis both via online training and in a live classroom in Toronto, the hypnotic world epicenter. He affectionately refers to his students as hypnotic storm riders across the world. You can learn more about Mike at: https://mikemandelhypnosis.com

To watch Mike’s keynote speech at Hypnoses Though 2019 (referenced in this episode), visit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FEbsU7Nr9o

Make sure to check out and subscribe to Mike’s Brain Software Podcast. We did 🙂
https://mikemandelhypnosis.com/category/podcast/

fireandearthpodcast

Transcript

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Welcome to another episode of the fire earth Podcast. I am your co host Kathy gruver

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And I’m Jason Medford, and hey, we are excited to have Mike Mandel back with us again. So Mike awesome episode last I’m really kind of mind blowing. For me, I know I think Kathy, you were speaking out to right. So yeah, it’s time to geek out again.

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Okay.

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So So Mike, maybe we’ll just do like a quick 15, you know, 22nd kind of thing for people that maybe didn’t hear the first episode so they kind of know who you are.

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You’re, you’re awesome and your

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Body.

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Your big in what you do, but a lot of you know people outside of your space may not know who you are.

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Yeah, that’s fine. I’ll be quick. Yeah, I’ve been doing hypnosis since 1965 when I discovered my head had hypnotic abilities and been doing it full time since January 29 1975

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And that’s 45 years pretty well full time hypnosis and NLP new code trainer.

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And forensic graph all interest in a forensic hypnotist and it worked on major crimes, including armed robberies murders sex offenses poisonings, all that sort of stuff. And I’ve live, breathe and eat and hypnosis. For the last 45 years. Yeah.

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So, and this is where it was kind of interesting because, as we talked last time, because my background is auditing, you know, doing a lot of

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What you might call it corporate police work right internally doing fraud investigations forensic work some of that kind of stuff as well.

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And just even in general, kind of, you know, interviewing and doing some of this stuff. So when we were talking before about some of the stuff around rapport that you were doing. We thought, okay, let’s, let’s talk about this because I’ve, I’ve heard

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Honestly, I’ve heard people probably miss use the word rapport, or teach it at a very superficial level, but it’s much deeper and much more powerful. So I’m really interested to kind of get your take on it and

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Have another mind blowing Geek Out experience.

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So we can do rapport is, um, it’s the English word for the French word rapport. So although we live in a bilingual bilingual country here in Canada. I’ll stick with the English, English one which is rapport.

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But this 10 different kinds of

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Rapport there’s hypnotic rapport and then this rapport and LP terms neuro linguistic programming. So the hypnotic around poor basically states that if someone has in a Deep Trance

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They will only respond to the hypnotist and will selectively delete vast portions of their experience, like other people in the room.

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Now naturally the hypnotist can bring someone else into that loop and have them respond to them as well. But it’s basically this

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Powerful psychodynamic loop between the hypnotist and the subject or subjects so powerfully relating to each other.

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The NLP term of rapport is when we apparently at least seem to enter someone else’s model of the world.

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There by building a bridge of communication that is very strong, very robust and very powerful because once we adopt someone else’s model of the world, they tend to listen to us.

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And we’re able to influence them as well. Now, you’d mentioned just before we went live with this.

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Jason about, you know, the whole thing that we were taught in the early days, you want to build rapport with someone you find out what their interests are and talk about that.

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I had a friend named Steve many years ago who sold something called venture one headsets.

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These were created by northern telecom or something and they were sold a different company so receptionist didn’t have to go hell all like they used to. They were these headsets and you got a meeting with the

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CEO of a company who were open to the idea and he was taught this old method, find out what he’s interested in and he sees books on the game of squash, not the not the vegetable and

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A trophy and he starts asked him, he knew something about squash and open this loop talking about squash well 40 minutes later the meeting was over, and they were still talking about squash it was never able to segue into the

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Venture one headset. And so there are limits to that kind of thing. So then people like my mentor john grinder and Richard bandwidth came along and they started looking at some

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Amazing communicators and finding out what what are the skill sets that they can sway people so readily and they found out that when people are in rapport with each other.

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They’re just using the same they use the same language, including the great Milton Erickson used to offer back people’s language to build rapport.

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They said, I’ve been feeling sad lately, you wouldn’t say I think you’re depressed, you’d say sad lately you offering their exact words without interpreting which builds an amazing rapport loop.

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Well, this is pacing the person and we were taught to do things like tilt your head, your spinal tilt match their spinal to all of these things. And these things definitely work and number of years ago, and then I’ll tell you the ultimate rapport secret. This will be your takeaway.

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Yeah, it’s a good one. So a number of years ago I had an old printer. I was selling it was a dot matrix if either of you were old enough to remember that.

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And yeah. Oh, yes.

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This does three pages, an hour. It’s amazing. Great. So I wanted to switch to a laser jet for Hewlett Packard, and I to sell this piece of junk.

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So I put it in the buy and sell that was sort of like Kijiji back then and

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I marked the price up by 25 bucks. What expected to get so the person could talk me down and feel like they’re getting a deal standard negotiating technique.

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This guy comes around in my house and maybe appointment to see it. He’s brother’s friend with his friend is the computer expert and it’s going to determine whether he should buy it.

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So I look at his friend. He’s got a jacket on, with all these ham radio crests Peterborough Ontario 20 megahertz Jamba real goal is stop now. My dad.

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Was a ham radio guy. He taught radio in the British Army. He was V3 FB. Oh, that was his call sign in Ontario. I knew just enough about it to fake it.

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And I said, hey, you’re into amateur radio. Yes. Are you. And I said, Well, no, not actually and I saw him deflated all that disappointment.

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And I said, well, my father was V3 IPO and he worked in British Army teaching radio in the car starts to light up. I said, tell me.

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How’s the green line D axing or what kind of skip. Are you getting in the tropical bands. I have no used up the totality of everything I know about radio, but this guy switch do. I’m like a light bulb. He’s getting any very an animated know, think about it.

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What do you feel like when you’re talking about your favorite subject you feel great. Yeah, he’s getting very animated the computer expert. We haven’t looked at the printer.

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And he’s saying oh yeah you know that we’re on the 11th cycle year low cycle of sunspots, and this, and this tropical bands is shut down.

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And as he’s moving. He’s nodding his head and I start nodding with him, and as he gestures like this, I asked a question, adjust to the same way we get this amazing psychodynamic loop of rapport between us.

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And I’m repeating back his words tropical dancehall. Yeah. And now, about two minutes of this, I can now leave and he will follow.

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Those friend says, Well, what about the printer and I did this gesture. I went well. It’s a good printer at a fair price.

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And the guy did the exact same thing I was aligned beside him against the guy. One of the printer and he did the same gesture, when it is a good printer at a fair price same gesture.

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got paid full price didn’t mark it down at all. I remember standing with the money at the bottom of my basement stairs at the rec room.

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Laughing insanely and thinking this is the power so great. It could only be used for good or evil so

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That’s what the old style rapport with matching and mirroring offering back their language, changing the vocal tonality to match. There’s

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Talking in the same system that they’re very visual. You see what I mean. You see what I mean. How does that look to you after they say well I feel all of that stuff.

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But here’s the takeaway, everything changed because one of my mentors john grinder when I was studying with him. We brought him to Toronto, a couple of times.

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And he said, we used to do all that stuff. He said, here’s the ultimate rapport secret my always credit the source, if I can. And this is him, he said.

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Simply pretend congruent Lee that the person you are dealing with is the most fascinating important person you have ever met in your life. Continue to pretend that

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And pretend you aren’t pretending anymore and the mirror neurons do the rest. And so

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I had a chance to test this. I had a keynote for Canada Border Services, which is our Customs and Immigration Service.

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east of Toronto came in by train. They sent me first class ticket on the train relaxing. This Wi Fi. It’s raining, it’s beautiful and reading

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I did the keynote and I two and a half hours to kill before I could get a train home.

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I went into the cafeteria of the facility off into a corner. I just want to read be left alone I become an anti social, you know,

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Not much of a people person. I can do it. But then I withdraw to recharge. And so I had a book I just opened it, and this big guy came in and he didn’t want to these, he said.

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Mind if I sit down.

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I gonna say I’d like it to be a jerk. Yeah, I do my good over here. This is why I said no, of course not. He was a customs officer.

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And we got talking and I thought, I’m going to do john grinders rapport secret I pretended this guy fascinating vitally important. And just someone I’ve always wanted to meet

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And I kept pretending that he told me stories he used to repel down onto Russian trawlers off the coast of Vancouver to check fishing violations.

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Amazing Stories and after two hours. I had to go and the time was gone in the blink.

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And he stood up, he shook my hand. He said, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me. I said, No, thank you. I said, this is one of the most interesting discussions. I’ve ever had in my life and I meant it.

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And the rapport did it the mirror neurons. You know what everybody’s got a story. Everybody’s got something of value to offer. Sometimes it’s a diamond in the rough and when we open that communication loop with them. It can be absolutely astounding what happens

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Is a two things came to mind as you were talking about that, what I was looking for a new place to live.

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I can build rapport quickly and I’m very outgoing and I’m very personable and I showed up to look at the place that I’m living in now and I’m ready to, like, Wow, this guy. And he was so low key.

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So,

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He’s such an engineer. And I’m like, oh my god, I cannot go with this guy like blah, blah, blah. But I would have scared.

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The crap out of them.

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So I pulled out, you know, very calm Cathy, and I’m like this is a really nice place. We did a really good job on this and I used his language and uses words.

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And he was clearly auditory because he kept saying things like here and listen. And so I picked up on that matched his report and I have a phenomenal place to live.

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The other one is Jason. Thanks so much. I’ve talked about expectation and you know you dread, going to the in laws for Thanksgiving and you don’t want to go and you build up this whole thing about not wanting to do it.

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If you just tell yourself you’re excited to do that thing and you build that it’s simply pretend pretend you’re pretending it’s building

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Site when I get to get in the car and I get to go see these people. I get to have this great meal.

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The more you build that up and it sounds like that’s what you were doing with this guy is just like finding it so fascinating and so exciting to talk to him.

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Until you’re no longer pretending I think we can do that with situations as well as people and I we so often build up this negative expectation and then well how’s it going to turn out. It’s gonna be a horrible.

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Right. Kathy, you’re so right on with that and and that’s the next point. So you’ve nailed it perfectly, you take something you have to do, and in your self talk you change it into something I get to do

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Yeah, immediately, everything changes. Yeah. You know, it’s, I have to, we’re working on a product new product and anxiety product right now, which will get anxiety right in the center and make a lot of people feel better.

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And I’m writing all of this and instead of getting up and saying, oh, I have to have to work on that all day.

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I see I get to sit in my office and look at all these beautiful trees that are changing color play whatever the heck music I want and just hang out by myself and have a blast all day.

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And that makes me want to do stuff. Now I’m back in rapport and myself. We’re about to Erickson saying

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Your clients or patients will become your clients or patients because they are out of rapport with their own unconscious minds.

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And if you think to the last podcast we talked about ego states we are integrated to the degree that our egos states have rapport with each other.

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Then they pop in and out when needed. Otherwise, we get all this people saying, Oh, I should do this, but I want to go to the Bahamas bought clash between different parts of ourselves rapport internally or externally, life gets a lot better.

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Well that’s interesting because you bring that up. I mean, because, because again. So, most, most of the stuff that I’ve heard around rapport, the stuff that I’ve taught people is kind of that NLP

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You know side of it. And, you know, but I love what you said there you know about pretend that they’re the most interesting person in the world and just keep doing it until you’re no longer pretending because I’ve had a lot of discussions with random strangers. Like, like you had

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And it is, you know, a lot of times you’ll walk away and it’s like, Man, that was just freakin amazing right

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You know you’ve I love humans in that way and and when you can actually kind of break that down, then you actually do have that that true rapport.

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With other people. Yes, we probably have to start pretending by, you know, doing some body mirroring by doing some keyword backtracking or, you know, using their words.

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But the more that we do that eventually kind of those barriers and everything falls down and we’re just literally in rapport in the moment with them.

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In the moment

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In the moment. And so I’ll talk about that a lot of times with mindfulness. Right.

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Is if you’re having a conversation with someone get in rapport with them so you can truly be present.

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During the conversation right but but but the little twist that you put on at the at the end there about being in rapport with ourselves.

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I hadn’t really thought about it in that way. And so that’s a very, you know, interesting thing I need to go away and think about a little bit too is like, Oh shit, you know, am I

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Not

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None of us arrive percent I’m convinced that no one’s completely integrated

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That I believe it’s incumbent upon us. We want to be good people and help others, regardless of what our, you know, political and religious or philosophical stripes are we want to be good people.

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Then it is incumbent upon us to continually improve I said in my keynote. The death rate is still one per person no matter what we do.

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But the key is to get as far down the line of being transparent as possible and God knows I’m not there yet. But my wife will tell you, I’m a hell of a lot better than I used to be.

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And we keep changing keep getting in rapport within ourselves. And then what we have to offer is a self that has no artifice. There’s, there’s no hidden agenda.

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Everything is transparent and we are in the moment at that time.

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And you’re bang on with that too because when we are in the zone and in the moment that other person we aren’t thinking of what we’re going to say next. You know, we’re not dominating the conversation as I probably be today, but we’re just

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We’re there and it’s a it’s a remarkable thing and life. Life is freaking awesome. And why not make it awesome for as many people as we can.

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Yeah and there’s been so many times where I’ve had brief exchange. I love talking to strangers. That is my favorite.

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I’m like you I when I hit my limit, though I I become my only child, and they just sit in a corner just rock by myself for a little while. It’s like I’m an extrovert until I’m not, then I’m then I’m done like I’ve done

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And I’ve had people in airports, try to talk to me. I just come and go.

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Because I just can’t do it anymore. But I love talking to strangers and I have learned so much about myself about others about that exchange of things and you never know who that lessons for

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And sometimes you’re just offering this little nugget of something that you have no idea how that influences another person.

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Oh nothing to you and it’s just exactly what you needed to hear. In that moment, and that’s just

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Isn’t that true we help others we grow from I had a flight to Boston. I was doing a keynote. There are a number of years ago and I had one of my students is an OB GYN in Boston. We’re gonna go grab a glass of wine. After it’s on the plane.

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I was reading the elderly woman in her 70s next to me.

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I say elderly and it’s not my job.

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Irish accent and she said we’re going, young man, it’s just going to Boston. I said, I am

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And she said that her husband. She and her husband used to go to Boston all the time he passed away three years previously and she had not gone back since. Now this huge Irish population there and she was

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Looking to go to a lot of places they love going together, they had a good marriage, but she was afraid it was going to stress her out. And that’s going to be overwhelming grief.

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And I said, you know, it reminds me of a person. I spoke to one. So the switch any hypnotic language.

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And trance, this woman out on the plane without her knowledge and we got to the other end. And she said, do you mind if I pray for a young man young man should pray for me. So this Catholic woman praise for me, not knowing that it was a Presbyterian, we really

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Glad we got our luggage and she said you know something funny happened. And that’s like

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I’m really looking forward to going to Boston now. And I said, that’s right.

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Yeah, know rapport with her and the rapport. It was all based on the fact that she was Irish and I loved Ireland and it stayed there unleashing castle that open the door.

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Then she started one packer life and I was able to hypnotically into sector as a result of that, but without rapport, I’d be just talking to the wind.

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So, so, so maybe if you can give us, you know, because I think we at the beginning. We talked a little bit about some of the basic things that you might do, right, if you’re if you’re trying to build rapport with someone else.

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And yeah.

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Having the conversation. Right. I mean, trying to find out what they’re interested in, you know, talk about some of those things you can you can start to do you know the the body positioning

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The, the key word backtracking type of stuff. But when we switch that to ourselves, I guess, how do we, what are some of the things that we should be doing, or trying to think about in with report to our selves, right, because again that’s, that’s where it’s

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Right.

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A little harder. Unless we’re like looking in the mirror and it’s like, oh, I’m going to talk. My head this way. Well, I’m already

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Already Kochi my head that way so that doesn’t really work right.

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I didn’t talk to myself out loud, but it’s like I usually don’t respond to myself out loud so

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Do you

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Well, maybe I do

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only child. Sorry, I

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Don’t you need expert information, you just compare them.

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So what are some things that we can do.

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In rapport with yourself or with you.

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Know, with ourselves.

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With yourself.

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I highly recommend

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You pick up one of the fine books written by Dr. Gordon Emerson out of Australia. It’s Australia, New Zealand, I’m 90% sure it’s Australia. He’s written great books on ego state theory and on resource state therapy.

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And resource state ever since gone

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Further, he treats all the sub personalities as resources, we can draw from

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And it helps us integrate it gives us the means of creating a healing hand where we put our most healing nurturing ego state we get it to agree to be in our hand.

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And then we find parts of us that are unhappy and we treat them by putting your hand on your heart and letting the two ego states.

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Actually build new neural pathways. That’s what’s happening. It’s what’s happening with NLP, this is the wonder of

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A lot of the stuff that my friend Melissa tiers teachers is that we’re not just talking people into things were changing the wiring of their frickin brains and this is yet another way ever since stuff is absolutely fantastic. I highly highly recommend it. And it’s, um,

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I had a tremendous point there, but I’m not an age.

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Of the screen. It’s just gone.

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To get worse for me than

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Way, way worse.

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Oh no, it’s like

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Well, no, but I like I mean there’s there’s a tip again. Right. You said even even, you know, trying to, to, you know, see that other ego state in your hand.

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But then again, you’re using multi sensory stuff where you’re then actually touching, you know, and we’ve we’ve talked about some of that before even with, you know, like self love you know even, even the whole, you know, giving yourself a

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Definitely

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It seems a little. It seems a little crazy, but it actually works.

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Right, it’s not crazy at all. It’s not crazy. Oh, equal states that desperately need to be nurtured and if anybody Google’s Mike Mandel keynote hip no thoughts like 2019 you’ll hear my story.

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I delivered a keynote, the entire KEYNOTE IS IN hypnotic loops and in that I give my story about healing my first healing of an ego state that went back to four years old.

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And when that healed my whole life changed. And it’s, there’s some cool stuff in that because it’s it’s

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This take home stuff and realizing how important this is anyone doing NLP parts therapy, you’re working with equal status.

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Anybody doing Gestalt Therapy where you’re putting things into, you know, the other part of you and a chair and talked with switch chairs. You can leave equal states in chairs.

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And have amazing discussions and change things completely. We had a guy, one of my classes, we’re gonna call him Richard only because that was his name.

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Wonderful man from Yorkshire, England.

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And he was in Toronto. He’s a sales trainer. He’s incredible, but he said sometimes he’d show up for training and he’d be in the zone, he said. Other times, he’d show up.

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Any field timid and afraid to go and speak. And he said, and I said, this is an ego state problem. So we dealt with it in front of the class.

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Put them in a trance asked his ego state that’s powerful and amazing that deals with the speaking engagements really well to come forward and tell me when you’re here.

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This little guy this voice goes, I’m here. Whoa. I said, What can I call you, he said Lionheart now it’s not nice. Richard the Lionheart right let’s think about our history.

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So then we get the other ego state to become executive hitting the hypnosis will get to the deep ones. And this one was the one that shows up sometimes. And there’s afraid and it called itself plant.

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It was like a little plant that didn’t want to be trampled on, and so when it was afraid of speaking, it would some to become executive to try to talk him out of doing his job.

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So I just negotiated said plant will you sit in the background and let Lionheart handle all the speaking, yes.

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And Lionheart. Are you willing to take okay give each other a hug the ego states hug bang his problem disappears. Every time he goes in front of an audience now Lionheart shows up, and he’s in the frickin zone.

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It’s like when I teach martial arts. I mean, my British James Bond ego state like he’s freaking unstoppable. Even at 66

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And I was driving with my wife on Highway four or one in Toronto, which is the biggest, stretch, stretch of highway North America 16 lanes wide.

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And a guy in front of me a pickup truck a dresser fell off the back of his truck into the road in front of me. My wife screamed and the James Bond ego state became executive and

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It was just unbelievable. And later when she had. How did I do that.

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Right. Make friends ego states they are resources, they can help you.

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Yeah, it’s so funny. I had a client asked me a question a couple weeks ago and it was the answer to the question was something I talked about all the time in my talks. And so I went into speaker Kathy and by vibe.

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I verbatim told her the answer that question. And she was on the massage table, and she goes, I have a feeling I just heard your talk.

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Because it was so clearly like a scripted answer to this question and I kind of thought about. I went, oh yeah, I totally switched into speaker Kathy, because that’s a story I tell all the time from the stage.

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And I have to say like your keynote and hip no thoughts. Last year was perfect. It was one of the best talks. I think I came up to you afterwards and told you that she listened to.

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Like I seriously recommend everyone listens. It was not only perfectly crafted talk. It was emotional. It was, I mean it was just the arcs and

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I we have to go because we’ve again blown through a half an hour, but just briefly tell us about loops, because I know we talked about open loops all the time and I only and most people don’t know what we mean by that, so

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Just real quick about loops and open loops and

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Yeah, and trying to engage in communication with another person we’re opening a psychodynamic loop where we’re responding to their behavior, they’re responding to what we’re saying.

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And as long as this continues. We’re in communication with each other and that’s what’s happening, the rapport. We’re opening communication loop.

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Which is going to build very powerful bridges between us and the other person where upon weekend now lead and they can follow and as your unconscious mind takes and the depth of all this information.

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At a level far me on that which you had previously thought capable you can permit yourself to not only take all of this in and apply it perfectly flawlessly.

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And Glenn actively but every conceivable part of all of your ego states can build rapport with the others and enable you to communicate flawlessly effortlessly whenever you’re in the situation when it’s already required and wide awake now.

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So you just totally hypnotized me. Damn it.

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For you.

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And that’s why report so important.

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Right, because we are establishing those communication loops.

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Whether it’s within ourselves and our various ego states or with other people as well, right, because that’s, that’s really when the connection.

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And the, the mindfulness. The presence everything really happens. That’s when you know it’s like when you were telling the story about that man you know that came up. That was a customs officer right you guys built a connection in in those in those two hours. Right.

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That’s a deep human connection that can happen actually very quickly when you get into those loops.

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I think so much, so much of the time we’re so so superficial so worried about whatever thing else is going on that we’re not actually present. And so we’re lacking so much of that connection with other humans. Yeah, that we desperately need. Right.

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Why was the professional yeah well in in the end. That’s why again when you do stuff, you know, using hypnosis or NLP

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It’s like it’s fixing those things that we fucked up before, right, because, because we haven’t had those connections are those other things and so

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Like the story with you know the plant ego talking to Lionheart and giving each other a hug and poof, it goes away right yeah we’re of those connections that we can have

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Whether it’s with live, you know, flesh and blood humans or within our ego states, the more of those connections that we can have

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Right, the greater life is more, we can actually accomplish and do anything.

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The more resourceful, we become

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Yeah yeah

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I love it, I love it so much people how they can reach you.

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Mike Mandel hypnosis com and Mike Mandel ma N D L one, L. And we’ve got lots of trainings, we do live classes in Toronto and in Las Vegas and in England, check out our stuff. Great to be here today. I love you guys.

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So happy to have you. I’m Kathy Gruber. I can be reached at

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Kathy Griffin calm.

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And I’m Jason method I can be reached at Jason method calm, so go out build rapport with yourself and with other people and make those real human connections and we will catch you on the next episode of the fire and earth podcast. See you.

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Yeah.

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